doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Detachable Scope Mounts

Glenn, the Warne Premier is the same size as the Kimber and also most RF tipoff mounts, to fit a 3/8" (I believe) dovetail. Warne doesn't make the Premier any longer, they use the Weaver size now. Warne Premier rings are basically the same as Kimber rings except the Warnes have a built-in recoil lug on one side that requires a very unsightly slot in the rib. There are a few other differences but they're minor for the most part. When I use Warnes I always grind off the lug so they'll fit my unslotted ribs.

I haven't yet tried the cross-pin recoil shoulder idea but it's becoming more & more appealing to me and will be on my next job. It allows a completely clean & uniform top rib surface with no 'busyness' or other unsightliness except the merest bumps in the dovetails on the rib sides.

A 40mm objective will require the high rings on a long rib, the mediums will work with a 40mm on a short (6" or so) rib. Of course anything will work with a straight tube. I have a stash of NOS 1" and 30mm Kimber and Warne rings if you want to try them, and I could possibly be talked out of a set...

BTW it finally got cool enough down here so that I had to put on my long pants yesterday. Columbus Day has come and gone so now it's (finally) cool enough to do some shooting. My favorite time of year except for the snakes.
Regards, Joe

Joe:

Now it becomes necessary to decide whether to go big or go home.

If I go with the current Warne or Talley, I will have to made the rib 1/2" wide, or bump it out at the mounts. If I went with the Warne Premier then I could have to mortise the sides of the rib for the 3/8" dovetail. The latter would have a greater visual impact, but would provide recoil shoulders where the sides of the rib are rebated.

I am a fan of low rings and small scopes. This will be chambered in .400-.350 (think .35 Whelen) and a Leupold 1.5-5x or equivalent would be fine.

Glenn

Glenn, the current Warne rings are the Maxima type which fit the Weaver-size bases, IOW they require a large wide base section with a large unsightly cross-slot. IMO their visual impact is strong, very strong (as in olfactory, VBG). The Talleys will require the same dovetail teatment as the Kimbers/Warne Premiers except slightly wider, but I believe the Talleys also have an unobtrusive recoil shoulder requiring only small elongated holes in the top of the rib. The Talleys seem like a good bet to me but I suggest you ask another poster here to post some picture details of their recoil shoulder system, sorry I don't own any Talleys or I would do it. The Talleys, of course, are also ultra-PC and would be considered desirable and appropriate by almost everyone.
Good luck, Joe

He just has the pictures up, you'll have to contact him for more info.

I've emailed Mr. Smithson asking about getting scope mount bases and rings installed on a small German .250-3000 DR which I currently own. I asked specifically about pricing, as well.

I'll post the information when he replies.

Although I have never done any of this kind of work, I shot those pix for Joe Smithson and currently have three Ralf Martini integral barrels in the shop all set-up for Talley mounts.
Smithsons mount is quite remarkable in that it is the cleanest instalation I've seen for adapting older rifles to modern scope. that said it is not the easiest to remove and replace he scope from because it must slide on and off straight back or forward. Kind of the opposite of claw mounts, there is NO tilt factor so scopes with objective bells and rear sights can get in the way of each other. Seems obvious, but until you ding the bell sliding it back to hit a rear sight...

The breech must be opened to remove/replace with a double rifle, better with the brls removed. The slotted mating of the rings to the bases don't allow any tightening for wear. (also note, this rib mount has the male part on the brl, normal bolt rifle mounts would have the male on the ring.) Last I heard, Joe had only sold a few components to gunmakers for installation outside his shop. Not cheep, but very high quality.
I've got more experience with talley although the only field use on my own rifle and I've never removed the scope except to upgrade it once.
Talley's, when removed, offer some very sharp corners and edges that somewhat dangerous and might be considered unsightly. Here's a pic of Talley mounted on Hagn brld action.

A you can seem Ralf mills his with the rear base cut from the brl cylinder.
(These pic were taken to show action remodeling.)


I have found a problem with eye relief, even with Leupold 1.5-5 which is my favorite scope for modern rifles. It had better be mounted as far back as possible, preferably with the rear base on top of the aciton.
I have no inclination to make recommendations, just thought these pics might be helpful. Let me know if you want to see somethign else. also good ideas for stylish ribs. (Im also revealing that I'm th worlds worst typest but have a ton of other things to do at the momnt and am only going to do minimal editing, whic I usually spend as much time as I do writing!)
Best,
steve

Steve:

Thanks for the information and the pictures. Pictures always help. I think you guys have me pointed in the right direction.

Right now I am leaning towards the Talley rings because they are available and the dovetail size seems compatible with the planned rib dimensions. Tentatively I plan on setting the rings down on the top of the rib instead of letting them into a mortise. Hopefully it will suffice to use a vertical pin in the bottom of the ring that mates with a shallow hole in the rib to take the recoil.

Howsomever, I do have some concerns about being able to move the scope far enough back. I don't really want to put the mount on the action if it is at all avoidable. I would look at making offset rings before I did that. I suppose the only thing for it is to make a mock up of the scope and see how it fits.

Thanks to all!

Glenn

Gentlemens:

I finally convinced my computer to play nice with Photobucket. Here are a couple three pictures of the Fraser rib I wish to copy.

One more thing... how close together can scope rings be place before there are problems with strength and rigidity? Any rule of thumb there?

Glenn

I like to see the original rifle, thanks. Please don't replicate the barrel contours?!?! Thsoe wafer inserts are great but you may need a recoil abutment.
Again, I don't do this kind of work, but the ring placement for modern scopes (which they keep making shorter 'n shorter) is mostly (I think) determined by the location of the adjustment turret.
The basic problem is: are you trying to adapt a modern scope with internal adjustmens to a vintage rifle, or place an external adjustment scope on a modern stocked hunting rifle? A quandry in this shop?!?!
Please correct me if I'm amiss?!?!