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#118115 10/22/08 10:01 AM
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With the Euro down 20% against the dollar and the price of lead down 62% when do you think the price of guns and ammo will start down or will the mfgrs. just pocket the new found profits?

bill

bill schodlatz #118118 10/22/08 10:11 AM
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I like to watch the Parker Repros for sale on GunsInternational. It seems like more guns are becoming available for sale, but the prices aren't going down any. I bet it will be the same with new guns and ammo; maybe they won't go up for a while. We'll see.
Joe

bill schodlatz #118121 10/22/08 10:15 AM
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I believe with everything moveing back and forth so fast it will be a month or so after elections before companies make any changes.

bill schodlatz #118151 10/22/08 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: bill schodlatz
...do you think the price of guns and ammo will start down or will the mfgrs. just pocket the new found profits?


Shame on profits. Profits are killing our free market economy. Everybody should work for nothing. From each according to his ability; to each according to his need. There is so much greedy profiteering going on that American industry can't afford to employ Americans anymore. But one needs to ask where these supposed profits are going...

Just this morning the Associated Press had article about Chrysler LLC being gobbled up by GMC and possibly shutting down Dodge and "streamlining" down the rest of the Chrysler line. The president, not of Chrysler or GMC, but of the UAW Local 1268 in nearby Belvidere IL, put his spin on the transaction: "The problem is that we can't compete with workers and factories in other countries who have no human rights, no environmental standards, no safety standards."

The day has come when American industry's "profits" have been gobbled up by "human rights (ie. special-interest litigation encouraged by excessive legislation coupled with an activist judiciary), "environmental concerns" (snail darters, drowning polar bears, and saving a precious 2,200 acres--less than 4 square miles-- of Alaska's almost 600,000 square miles from drilling for oil), and "safety standards" (Catch-22 OSHA regulations, and a Pandora's box of social regulating and intervention). The result is that a multitude of employees are soon to be unemployed by their own misdirected "profiteering." Time and again we see that workers are threatening or actually going on strike, not for current wages and/or benefits, but for future and speculative issues. Case in point:

Winchester leased its New Haven CT plant facility and licensed the Winchester trade mark and Model 70 trade mark to one of these profit-oriented corporate entities. The union negotiated a "poison pill" contract that forbid the corporation from making the Model 70 during the term of the contract if it moved the operation overseas. Keep in mind that the Model 70 was out of patent and all that was involved was attaching the Winchester name and "Model 70" to a product that could be made anywhere. The plant was closed, the employees were out of jobs...query: What did the union gain from the "poison pill" that denied the business the flexibility to seek out profits elsewhere?

And the better question is, what was so non-economic in New Haven that even made the issue a topic of consideration?

Which begs the larger question: What is driving American businesses out of America? Answer: Lack of profits. And guess what; without the profit incentive a free market economy fails and we are no longer free.

American industries are either out of the country or out of business. Wage slaves take heed! From each according to his ability; to each according to his need. I forget whether it was Marx or Engles or Lenin who coined the phrase, but the American version smacks of Marxism--Groucho. And is best characterized by another American pundit, Pogo: "We have found the enemy and he is us."

Whenever I see one of these knee-jerk comments assailing "profits" or suggesting or implying that that industry is ipso facto profitable, I wonder whether the knee-jerker is willing to work for nothing, or does he expect that the investments that fund his anticipated retirement should operate at a socialized break even so there are no profits to pay dividends. If he works for Chrysler LLC, it looks like all the supposed profits are going to evaporate. And guess who also owns Remington Arms? I've been through the factory on the Erie Canal, which reminds me of an old joke:

Two retired captains of industry were sitting on a beach in Florida, comparing notes. One told of how tough business had become with the over- and conflicting-regulation at every level of government, plus the union's reach exceeding their grasp of the precarious situation relative to overseas competition in a global economy. But then a fire destroyed the first man's plant facility, and he took his insurance pay-out and retired to Miami Beach.

The second man said that his story was almost exactly the same, but it was a flood that took its toll...

And the first man asked, "How did you arrange a flood?"

The idea that profits are bad is a bad idea that has gained currency in the current "class warfare" political environment. Look what lack of profits has done to the airline industry: bankrupt! And the "big three" auto industry: on the verge! The textile industry and shoes; Americans would be naked but for goods imported from overseas. We would immobile but for oil imported from overseas. Three car makers are soon to be two, when all the best selling vehicles are foreign. And liquidity in the financial sector? History!

And the whipping boy is Nasty Profits. To paraphrase Yogi Bera, "American industry is so profitable that nobody makes anything anymore." EDM


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EDM #118154 10/22/08 12:31 PM
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Amen!
and along with profits are the rants about the "rich". And Obamas favorite "economic justice". i.e. redistribution of income. Marxism at its finest.


Brian
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Brian #118193 10/22/08 05:37 PM
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Quote:
The president, not of Chrysler or GMC, but of the UAW Local 1268 in nearby Belvidere IL, put his spin on the transaction: "The problem is that we can't compete with workers and factories in other countries who have no human rights, no environmental standards, no safety standards."


Japan? Germany? Sweden? England? (Jags will still be built in England, even under Tata ownership.) Union bosses are so full of crap!

The economic conditions and bad decisions that have hurt the domestic manufacturers (i.e., big trucks and SUV's) are also hurting companies like Toyota. They have put Tundra production on hiatus, and are heavily discounting inventory

EDM #118197 10/22/08 05:53 PM
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"...it is always advisable to perceive clearly our ignorance."ť Charles Darwin
JayCee #118212 10/22/08 08:59 PM
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Nice rant Ed but what does that have to do with the price of a Euro and the fact that lead has fallen 60%. I thought the "American way" was competition not promoting greed. I guess lawyers charge their price regardless of the economy.
bill

bill schodlatz #118216 10/22/08 09:50 PM
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Ed, your rant fails to take into account the very ideas that allowed America to become an economic superpower in the first place. You are guilty of condoning the very same behavior that has brought on the latest wave of economic woes.

What am I talking about? All things in moderation, that's what.

There's nothing wrong with profitability - indeed, it is a healthy and necessary driver in any economy. But, it's a sign of weakness and lack of intelligence to presume there is no cap on the amount of profit one can and should make. That's right, I'm talking about good old greed which is even mentioned as far back in time as the Bible.

Show me an auto executive, or any executive in any business, who says he is barely making ends meet and I'll show you a liar. I'm sick to death of hearing people whine "We had to move production to China because we couldn't make any money here." What they are really saying is "Rather than having this business support my family on $1 Million per year, and 200 other families at $50,000 per year, I found a way to make $6 million per year for my family and those other 200 families can go piss off.'

I don't want to make this personal but the mere fact that you were able to retire via lawyering at 27 or some such age speaks volumes. Somebody somewhere took a screwing to make that happen.

bill schodlatz #118220 10/22/08 10:04 PM
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Right on, Bill. The meltdown was the greedy finally eating themselves, not profits in the usual sense, as we know them. Bank accounts are now going to the big countries. Governments have become guarantors of financial stability. The small countries with banks bigger than their economies are in big trouble---Iceland going to IMF, the proudly independent Scandinavian countries considering joining the euro.

As for factories closing from globalization. labour has become globalized, too--- something left out of our embrace of globalization. With Europe now looking to the EU for salvation, maybe it's time to renegotiate NAFTA (sans Mexico which isn't ready) and really launch the continent, economically, environmentally with security into the 21st century. With American investment to reduce the environmental impact of our fabulous oil sands, the US could get all the oil etc.

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