doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Darne V20

I have this gun that's so darn hard to close and open with rounds in the chambers. It's OK to close and open without anything in the chambers or if I use plastic snap caps. It seems that the brass base of the regular rounds has to be squished into the barrels quite a bit for the gun to close. Any ideas about how to make it work a little easier? The gun seems to show very little use, but should be broken in already. And it is not dirty either. Any help appreciated.

I have a BRNO 16 that won't close on Remington shells, but works fine with other brands. Have you tried other shell makes in your gun?...Geo

Yes,

Same story. I can see the squeeze marks on the brass. Maybe I can polish a thousandth or two out of the chamber at the breech end, but I don't know if it isn't the obturator disks...

No, it is not the obturator discs. The most that needs to be done with this gun, and I stress the most, is for the rim space to be deepened a few thousands.
nial

See if it will close with a shell in only one or the other chamber. Maybe the problem is at least just on one side. I guess you are sure you're using the right length shell? If the chamber is 2 1/2" and you're trying to load 2 3/4" the shell may seem to fit, but may be getting stuck in the forcing cone. I'd want to be very sure what the problem was before you start altering the chambers...Geo

I have tried both 2.5 and 2.75 long shells. They both get hard to push in. I will try a picture of a shell to show where it rubs. This might give an idea where relief should be attempted?

Do you have tools with which you can measure chamber dia's. I would not do any modifications until I knew for positive what is there now.

Yes,

This is what I found out:
The chambers measure .805 at the breech end whereas other 12 ga I have measure .815 or so. This should not be a problem because I can push easily any 12 ga round in each of the barrels. Unfortunately the obturator disks are not in absolute perfect alignment with the bores, therefore the increased friction.
I smoked the inside of the chambers and this is what I saw:


I hope you can see the bit of black smoke on the side of the brass.
Can I polish 5-10 thou of the chamber with a wooden dowel and emery cloth or I need a chamber reamer?

Have a DARNE R-16 in 10 gauge with a similar problem. The gun has 2-7/8 chambers so I've cut down Federal primed hulls and loaded my own. The Federals chamber, but with resistance to being pushed in; they don't just drop in. Fired rounds eject with no trouble, but the unfired rounds often will not extract because the Federals are too tight a squeeze at the base. Nothing, in my case, to do with rim thickness or obturator disks.

The gun is now with Kirk Merrington who is DARNE qualified. He's putting a recoil pad on (primarily to give me a longer LOP), and he'll be looking at the size problem. Expect he'll ease off a few thou at the back of the chamber, but he might just tighten up on the fit between the extractor lever and whatever you call it on the sliding breech that causes it to move the extractors outward. He hasn't told me what's what yet.

I'd check him out before messing with your chambers. V20s need the best...

Hopefully we'll get some word from Ted Schefelbein or Geoffroy Gournet on this.

Regards

Tim,

Your R16 story sounds just like mine. Rounds are hard to chamber by pushing with the sliding action, but easy to do by hand.
The action closes normally when there are no rounds being loaded, therefore I think the leverage works properly.
THe shells show signs of friction on the brass and the breech side of the chamber measures less than standard, so I believe I found the problem. I will try to polish a bit the inside of the chambers where they seem to rub the rounds.
Thanks for the advise.

Serban,

Saw your post on the French gun board and Geoffroy's recommendation to just go for a few thou polish. As I recall you've done a lot of work with the Darne.

I'm frankly surprised and a little curious that no one has done anything to fix this problem before. Did you ask the seller or the dealer where you found it?

Regards, Tim

Tim,

This is another Darne that I have acquired. What you probably remember is an R13 that I cleaned up. The R is very smooth and still tight.
I read somewhere on the Darne forum that some people prefer the R action to the V action just because the former is smoother.
This is a V20 that I found without a fitting stock. I just cut a stock for it and put it together.
This evening I polished a few thou from the breech end of the chambers to bring them to .812. THis seems to have eased the action closing and opening a little, but there is still quite a bit of increased resistance. If I close and open the action a few times with same rounds in the chambers, the operation becomes smoother as if the rounds are being reshaped. Once I go to new rounds the resistance grows back to where I know it.
I would be curious to know what Mr. Merrington found about yours.

Another note,

When one opens the V action before or without pulling the triggers, there is more resistance provided by the firing pin springs that decock.
If you pulled the triggers, you don't have to operate these springs, therefore the action opens with more ease.
I am still puzzled about the increased resistance of the action opening and closing when there are rounds in the chambers.

Conclusion to the inquiry for whatever it's worth:

Thanks to Darnation who mentioned the idea of a spacer behind the discs!
After measuring the depth of the disc faces comparative to the breech face I found out that they were 5-7 thou proud. Moreso, the ring on the R disc was of a slightly smaller diameter than the L disc ring so that it made pushing a shell base more difficult on the R than on the L. Adding a tighter chamber, everything contributed to a tight closing action.
What I did was to slightly polish the inside ring on the R disc to accept the base of the shell easier. Most of the relief came from filing about 4-5 thou off the back of the discs, at the bottom of the R disc where thickness was 7 thou more comparative to the thinnest part of the discs. It was mainly the R barrel that made the action so tight.
Now, the action is still tight, but much easier to close and open with new rounds...

Sort OT, but do we have many Darne lovers in the group. By coincidence, my brother called a couple hours ago and said he's going to go look at three sxs that a individual has for sale. One is a DArne 20ga. Don't know anything about it, but if we don't want it maybe can find a home on DGS. Randy

Serban,

Yes, I saw Geoffroy's post on the spacer/obturators and am glad to hear that you seem to have sorted it out. Still wonder how the previous owner managed to use the gun...

Regards, Tim

I bought the gun with a broken stock. Maybe it broke when the guy was trying to close or open it!

If it is the gun I think it is, I sold it to Silver.When I bought the gun, the stock had been cut to 13 inches. I had glued an extender piece on, but never got around to finishing it. Too many projects and a Charlin was calling. I bought the gun primarily for its condition and engraving. It dates to 1931. The wierd demensions are typically French. Sort of like a Citroen, the only car that you have to call a plumber rather than a mechanic. The V20 is a stunning gun and am glad that Silver is doing justice to it.

John,

That's the gun. I will post pics once the stock is finished to a certain degree...
Well, I couldn't resist. John, especially for you...

John and Serban,

Agree that DARNE V-20 is a fine gun. Lost out on one in South Africa in August.

Nice looking piece of wood being fitted there. Look forward to a photo of the finished product.

Regards, Tim

Here is the finished product:

Hello Sliver,

Very nice, congratulations!

JC

Superb looking gun. I hope you enjoy it for many years.

Thank you, guys!

I took it hunting already. It worked well.
Although it weighs only 5 lbs 12 oz I shot B&P High pheasant 32 gr. without problems.
It has a pair of very light barrels, 27" long, choked cyl/full.

Nice job Silver, I am glad the gun i seeing some use and has been restored to such a usable condition. I am sure you will enjoy it. Meanwhile, I must get back to the CHarlin at some point. Regards.

Siver, nice work, but stock doesn't look French by shape and by wood choice. It looks like on an American rifle. It's not late yet to make round knod and to oil wood.

Serban,

Good results that you proved by hunting with the Darne.

Regards, Tim

Geno,

Thank you for your comment.
I agree, it does not look much like the Darne stock. I wished I made it into a straight wrist stock and John Dozier did add a straight trigger guard when he sent me the gun, but it needed some modifications that I wasn't ready to do.
For some reason I don't like the round knob of the Darne design. It looks to me like a goiter or something else flask and soft. Also, the older ones have quite a bit of drop at the heel...looking to me like a camel hump with a goiter...
Because of the sliding breech, the DAC had to be slightly below 1.5" and the lenght of the comb is 1" shorter than the English combs in general (10") for a LOP of 15". I followed the English proportions in general from Mike Yardley's book. I even finished the butt end with no plate, just checkered it.
I long debated the issue of estetics of the wrist/knob and this form seems to satisfy my desires the best...

Here are a couple more pics that may show the lines of the gun better. I added my R13 to one of the pics to see the differece by comparison. The R13 had its round knob contoured more than the original when I refinished the stock. Both were finished with Truoil, the R13 finish was cut back with steel wool to a satin.
I would like to hear your critiques, please.

Nice work. Here is my opinion, which I offer humbly, as an amateur:

1) I like straight grips better than either of those.
2) I like the one with the bag grip better.
3) I like the raised comb line of the square gripped one you made, but the toe line might better have been brought up. I know this might give a tendency to "goosenecking" at the grip, but the stock looks a little too deep at the butt end.

Once again, nice work though, and thanks so much for posting the good pictures and story.

Best Regards,
Tony Lowe

THe square knob one has:
LOP 15"
DAC 1 3/4
DAH 2 1/8
Castoff 1/2
THe round knob one has:
LOP 14 1/2"
DAC 1 7/8
DAH 3
Castoff 3/8
Funny thing is that I can shoot both about the same, but the round knob one has an odd feeling to it...because of so much drop at heel.
Edit: both butts are 5 1/8 deep, but a different pitch.

Beautiful work Sliver you are definitely a true artist with those Darnes!!!!
I'm with Geno I really like the rounded pistol grip but both are exceptional!!
What do they feel like while out in the field with them?? Do they feel like a English game gun/magic wand or do they take some time getting use too???