doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Smith & Wesson Double Guns

We are talking about this on a thread titled "The Next RBL," but it seems to me that this title might be missed by some.

If it's okay with the moderators, I'll start a new thread.

My question: What would you like to see in a new double gun? Smith & Wesson has announced a new line of shotguns, including S/S, O/U, and autoloaders. These are to be made in a new factory in Turkey. That is, they are not guns currently being made and then just imported. These are new guns.

So, what would you like to see in a new shotgun offering. Which features are must haves, which are like-to haves, and which are "they better not do this" items?

What price point are we talking about?

Tom,
1)Functional durability - this means the materials and design (good steel and good design)

2)Form - appropriate weight and dimensions for the gauge/use i.e. gamegun weight and balance for gameguns, etc.

3)Quality of manufacture - this means the high quality execution of the design - close tolerances, good machine finishes and fit internally, and good external fit and finish so cherished by many here.

If those three things can be met to my satisfaction, I'd like a boxlock, 16ga ejector, double trigger, straight stock, semi beavertail forend, with no engraving and an option for beautiful wood, weighing between 6 1/4 lbs and 6 1/2 lbs. After that, a 20g, 28g and .410 . I have no use for a 12g if a light 16g is available. But it would be hard to imagine offering a line of guns that excludes the 12g.

The grade 1 doubles, 20 gauge, will carry a suggested retail price of about $2100, they say.

Trigger plate lockwork. Rounded body.

Grade II are slated for the second year.

1) A gun designed and built by American hands. No illegal aliens in the plants, either. Turkey is a country which is semi-hostile towards the US.

2) No single trigger for me. Two barrels, two triggers.

3) Option of barrel lengths from 26" to 32". Fixed chokes are fine with me.

4) No recoil pads. But if there has to be one, for the ladies, a Silvers type.

5) Customer's choice of gauges 12, 16, 20, 28 and .410. The smaller bores should be on smaller frames.

6) Styling should closely resemble fine English guns - not Spanish or Turkish intretations thereof.

7) Straight or pistol grip options, beavertail or splinter options.


But most of all...I feel S&W is answering a question which no one has really asked. Does the market need another manufacturer? Not really.

What Chuck and Greg said-pulleeeezzze tell them we want a 16
No Marlin pseudo-LC or garish engraving-make it an honest 'hunter's gun' our fathers or grandfathers would have been proud (or at least not embarassed) to carry. Almost sounds like the Ruger GL without the quality control issues and which just didn't quite look right with those 12g tubes.

The only void in the market is a SxS target gun. Everything else is covered, indeed saturated.

What I would buy if it was available in a quality gun is a 30" barrel single trigger, slim beaver, pistol grip 12ga SxS weighing in at a little over 8 pounds for use as sporting clays gun. Give me a 14 3/4 pull length, a little cast, a recoil pad similar to Browning's XS series guns with chokes of .015 in each barrel. I would closely look at such a thing even if made in Turkey by Azimov's robots. It needs to have useable triggers.

Double triggers. If it has to be a single trigger at least don't combine the barrel selector with the safety - the one gun I used to own with that design gave me fits.

Fixed chokes on hunting guns are fine. "Oddball" choices, like Skeet/Mod would be good.

My personal preference would be for a POW grip and a semi-BT fore end. More importantly, I'd expect this to be a quality piece - something my grandchildren would be using many decades from now (assuming the PC crowd hasn't turned all firearms into scrap by then)

I wish S & W luck - at 2 grand or so, there's a lot of other options for the gun buyer out there.

I'm not sure why Tom is asking as I'm sure S&W marketing firms have been studying the market to "death" or they would not be contemplating the venture in the first place. However if their "focus groups" are like Carl Rove's, they need lots of help! Personally I like the graceful lines of a sidelock but understand the ease of manufacturing a boxlock(also the inherent strength of the stock). I believe "less is more" hence simplicity over complex triggers, selectors, ejectors-2 triggers and extractors. Skip the engraving, just simple color case coloring. Fine wood, no Berreta faux picture wood. Personally POW grip and small beavertail forend. Options for straight stock and barrel lengths from 26-32". Gauge appropriate frame. Screw in chokes would be acceptable if they were of the Briley/Teague(long) type. Chrome lined barrels make cleaning easier and blacking the outside faster than bluing(cheaper too). Anyway enoug rattling on. Dr. BILL

I appreciate S&W asking us the shooting public what we want, but do not think a SS made in Turkey will fill the bill. I have shot and worked on some guns made in Turkey, and the quality and craftmanship is poor. Make a sidelock like the 1920's L.C. Smith long-range shotguns in 3 inch and I will buy one or two. I won't buy one made by an emeny of the United States. So Turkey is out Tom.

Regards
M.L. Hipp