doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com What qualifies a gun as "HAND-MADE"?

Hey....wait a minute!
That Cabela's scope was, I think....$52.75 with tax, handling, insurance and shipping!
I luv it!
Instead of a cheap rimfire rifle, I bought a cheap scope.

LG:

As Sean Kelly said to Bobke Roll, "You just ain't gonna quit, are you?" Good on you!

jack

Some of those cheap scopes are truly impressive. Maybe I wouldn't count on one if I was going on safari, but, if I had the inclination to do a "Thorny crow safari" I wouldn't think twice about it. I was reading about an optical factory (far east, of course) that had a production area that wasn't lit, when a machine broke, the repairman had to bring a light to work on the unit. Alas, good guns won't be like that any time soon. I'm sure an accountant somewhere is just sick about it, too.
I saw NO machines in the G. Granger shop in St. Etienne. Three guys at a bench with hand tools. The Bruchet's have a machine that profiles the inside of the barrels, the outside is struck by hand. The only other machine that they used was a small lathe with a jig ('er,I mean, fixture) for drilling the hole for the bolt in the buttstock. They do contract with a guy for rifle cut (spreader) barrels on shotguns, and I think the double rifle barrels are purchased in a finished state on the ID. The action start as round forgings that are delievered with three rough cuts made around each piece. The balance is done by hand.
Best,
Ted

Wow! It's hard for me to imagine how a person could make the internal configurations of a gun frame without a machine like a mill or shaper. Also difficult to imagine taking a big ol bar of steel and filing the external shape of a modern barrel while holding wallthickness consistantly. But my question is why. Why would anyone chose to do these things without the benefit of a machine?

I believe we are living in a period where the relative pinnacle of gunmaking is possible at all levels of economic class or catagory. The blending of technology with traditional work can produce the best "best" ever. The RBL is an example of bringing higher quality to lower price point.

That's a darn good question from the historico/educatonal as well as the advocacy perspective. I can more or less see the increasing metal work as one progresses from bar in wood to sidelock action bar to boxlock but most of what we hear about the "allied crafts" concerns fitting and finishing processes that come well after the how you get those mortises and channels stage. How did they do it? Archimedean drill as in down by the Ganges? Drill a bunch of holes, connect the holes with a small frame saw, break out the waste, clean it all up to the line with floats and files? Does the bar-action sidelock action really pre-date all but the most rudimentary machining. Which ones? When? What does a blind hole like the "box" of a sidelock mean? What developments in machining made it possible? Go ahead, educate me.

jack

Jack,
I dunno jack about the history of machine tools, but I poked around the net and found some stuff. I have only crossed checked these claims in a few other websites and make no claim to their accuracy.

It seems Eli Whitney (US)is often credited for having invented the modern milling machine in 1818. In the same year, Thomas Blanchard (US)(of Blanchard grinder fame?) was said to have invented a duplicating machine for gunstocks. Joey Whitworth (UK) suggested standardized screw threads in 1830. Henry Maudslay (UK) was credited with inventing the first engine lathe (metal working lathe) in 1797 (although it is well known that woodworking lathes existed prior to this for an indeterminent time and clockmakers were developing metal lathes) and also an improved micrometer in the same year. Johnny Wilkenson (UK)was said to have invented the horizontal boring mill to allow cylinders of steam engine blocks to be bored accurately.

Even with the CNC machinery today, some hand finishing is still required. But rather than using the term "hand made" one should be using the term "hand fitted" or "hand finished". This refers to the era when everything wasn't done by computer. Stamping out parts on the Winchesters and Brownings during the during the 60s are a good example. The period when more parts were made and fit by hand instead of the burnt on checkering that is done today instead of hand checkering and hand engraving. Who wants to pick their engraving from a catalog that is going to be exactly done on thousands of other S&Ws? This is why so many new guns today need to be stoned to get a better trigger. Most of the time you can hear and feel the sound of an older gun tossing out the empties or the sound of the firing pins. Much like the difference of a nice leather basketball as opposed to the sound of a cheap beach ball sound of a cheaper one. It's the difference of closing your eyes and putting an $8,000.00 Ljutic trap gun to your shoulder as compared to a $1500.00 Browning. You can hear and feel the difference. Or some can.

A true handmade gun is liken to an original painting. An RBL would be more like a signed print.
LF

"It's the difference of closing your eyes and putting an $8,000.00 Ljutic trap gun to your shoulder as compared to a $1500.00 Browning. You can hear and feel the difference."

Sorry but I can't hear or feel a $6500 difference.
LF

I can also feel and see the difference when I shoulder my Browning Custom hand-built Superposed compared to a budget Ljutcic...

teee heeeee, sorry couldn't resist that ;-)