doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com What qualifies a gun as "HAND-MADE"?

Bill G,
I think the current ATF regulations allow for individuals to make guns for their own use as long as they are not sold. Although Steve may have gotten several orders for that hand made gun.

Chuck,

I'm was thinking more the Patriot Act". Think IED's. That thing sounds like it could explode any time.

Bill G.

LOL

Unless you're a cartoon character, it's kind of hand to work that forging with one's fist alone! I think Mr. Legg is looking for few good shops that make them lock, stock, and barrel using traditional hand tools and "simpler power tools".
Using outsourced continental parts and "polishing" by hand is considered cheating by some purists.
Genady showed us some pics of double rifles that looked pretty special. I believe they're offered for sale by one of the members who operates doublegunheadquarters. Now, these things must be made in one factory, because they're too unique. Someone at another board asked how long one would last in 460Wby chambering. My response was: judging from it's construction and bulk longer then a Mark V bolt gun!"

Three or four commonly-found interpretatons which may or may not apply to gunmaking but are thought-provoking.

1) freehand application of tool unjigged, untemplated, uncontrolled except by eye and hand, tolerances of assembly of parts terrible to irreproachable but no consistently repeatable, "interchangable" or identical copy produced with relation to a model or blueprint. Does not preclude layout on material, from rudimentary to painstaking. Cut and try accompanied by the old Masonic standards of comparison, i.e. "plumb of truth, square of integrity" etc.

2) applicaton of tool or cutter in a linear or reciprocating manner "by hand"; the operation of most chopping, chiseling, shaving, scraping tools. When linear or reciprocating motion of the human hand and arm is applied to a device (say crank and flywheel) which produces continuous rotary motion in the cutter or material cut (by this standard a treadle or bow lathe and even a carpenter's brace is very much a machine) it's no longer precisely "handwork" in the sense of #1 above no matter how demanding of power by Armstrong. I know there are apparent exceptions for instance metal planer or the big gang or frame saws still used to resaw sandstone. However, most of us, whether we think much about it or not, recognize that the conversion of energy from sources other than human muscle into usable, controllable, and endlessly reiteratable motion in a toolhead (the "drivetrain" so to speak) is the hallmark and bedrock of the industrial revolution. How many gun barrels were ever bored without a crankshaft in the boring rod? Just because it's accomplished in a grimy, ill-lit smithy doesn't make it "handwork".

3) many techniques, skills and processes under the mastery of one mind and one set of hands; the one-man-band, backswoods prodigy idea which is very long-lived and attractive to the individualistically-inclined. As we've seen, wasn't true in Birmingham and probably very little truth to it in any era. Complex processes require complex organization.

4) perhaps most relevant to gunmaking, finishing and fine fitting as in blacking down and polishing, exterior sculpting and surface adornment (checkering, engraving). Whether this work is 90% of the work in a built-by-hand gun, I leave up to you. You can engrave an iron-pipe zipgun, but a highly-organized and specialized industry had to make the pipe.

jack

Lots of interesting responses. Files, hammers, punches, chisels and hacksaws are tools, not machines. I'd probably even include drill presses as tools. After all, they were powered by hand long before electric motors came along. Using milling machines(that's why they're called machines), lathes and other obvious machines for the major part of the work make calling an item "hand made" simply B.S., IMO.
Thank you for your thoughts,

Lathes were powered by hand, or foot, so if you're going to allow a drill press then you have to allow a lathe.

Files, hammer, and punches are tools, but so are machines. That's why they're called machine tools. It seems we've become accustomed to the idea that if something is driven by an electric motor or steam/gas engine that's where we draw the line. Not sure that's an especially meaningful line, but OK.

There is a world of difference between producing a part with manual machine tool and a CNC tool. Those who don't understand the difference have never used the two.

It's much easier to go with something outragously expensive with a famous West London name on a lock plate! Those Suhl or Ferlach special order 'hand made' ones are best left to those who don't walk like they swallowed a long plank!

JL:

Hand-cranked drill presses and the modern "pocket" version--the "eggbeater" hand drill--also the "big wheel" lathe was likewise human powered. I still don't think the source of power makes the distinction as do controllable motion ("speed and feed")of the toolhead. Devil in detail as always.

jack

The bottom line is, if you walk like you swallowd a long piece of pressure treated lumber and .... truffles, or not at all only London best will do!