doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com The next RBL????

You know, I read that S&W media release linked above on this thread and I just want to puke... Talk about blah blah blah boilerplate language, and the same ole same ole puffy words. Here is one line that typifies the hype but in reality empty language of that entire piece:

"...The Smith & Wesson Elite Series will provide consumers with high-end shotguns in a value-added price range..."

Truly, "high-end shotguns in a value added price range" means just about zippo. It may sound "good" to the untrained ear, but in reality it means puff. High end is so subjective, and if I hear one more stuffed shirt corporate type say "value added price range" in describing anything I may just pop a gasket in my value-added conscious brain.

...Moreover, I hate being called a "consumer".... call me a person, call me a man, call me a buyer, even a customer.... but consumer just sounds so much like a device that does one thing: consume. Aren't we all more than that? can't pompous and out of touch marketing/media types get with the program and stop looking down on people who may or may not buy their products in part on how they address us??? How 'bout a little respect? (Rodney Dangerfield style)!?!

You mean the semiauto S&W shotguns? A friend had a pair of the skeet guns these had wide Tula chokes, sort of a blunderbuss look. He had a pair with him so when one broke at a shoot he just racked it and picked up the other. Actually they were nicely made in Japan, Kawagucha, some thing like that, not bad value for the money.
Mike, waiting in vain for his gold stars, may be I should send Mr Weber a contribution, actually I should anyway, seeing how I have learned and taught so much on this board, been fun too.
Mike

There you go Mike. 5 big ones.

Yogi,
At least they didn't call it a "shooting solution"

While there is justifiable criticsm of some low end products, they are not/were not only made overseas, i.e. Stevens 311/Fox model B, Marlin's O/U are only a couple. There is a market for "two shooters" priced between Remington's Biakal line and Tony Galazan's new RBL and the higher end Spanish or Italian or English guns. I have found what I say and do in haste I get to repent at my leisure. Personally I think I'll see ALL the cards before I venture an opinion. Finally the CZ/Hugulu(Turkey) guns I've sold have been well received and the 2 that required service were swapped for new guns within 10 days of leaving my shop. Try that with Remington or Ruger. Best, Dr. Bill

It's so much fun watching the folks post strong opinios on topics they know nothing about.

These are not guns being made for anyone else. They are new guns, made in brand new plant designed and built expressly, and exclusively for Smith & Wesson. You have not seen, and will not see, these guns with anyone else's name on them.

This afternoon I shot the doubles, the O/U, and the autos.

In a nutshell, pretty darn nice. There are some cosmetics I'd change, and I offered my thoughts. I think they will accept some of my suggestions.

Trigger plate actions. The bluing will be better on the production guns, they tell me. They are going to bone charcoal color case hardening. Wood will be grade 3 walnut on the first models. Better wood coming soon.

I'll have photos (and maybe video) on my web site in a day or so. http://www.guntalk.com I'm typing this in the Hartford airport, on the way back to Louisiana.

Anyone who thinks these are just renamed Turkish guns is out of the loop. Figure around $2100 for the double guns (20 gauge the first year). Street price may be a bit less. Rounded body (not really a Dickson-type round body, but nice). Non-automatic safety. Single trigger for now, but I'm pushing for double triggers in year 2. That would not be a problem.

The ones I shot had fixed chokes, but I suggested weeks ago that the production guns come with thin-wall choke tubes, and that's going to happen.

I think these guns will stand up well to anything in the market (new) at this price point.

The fact that the built a brand new plant to make these shows a level of commitment worth watching.

Not as nice as my Grulla. Certainly not as sweet as the Lebeau. Easily as nice as the Ruger. Think Winchester Model 23 or therebouts (in 2007 prices). Nah. Better than the 23.

Tom,
If they're better than the Win 23, they are pretty nice and I might even be interested in buying one, probably not in 20g since I'm in on the RBL and have other sxs 20g guns too. But a 28g or .410 might be interesting to me.

Tom,
One thing that seems to stick in my mind on guns made in countries not established as quality producer of guns is the question of steel quality and appropriate heat treatment. As I'm sure you've encountered, there are some lessor quality makers/models made in Spain and other countries that the heat treat or steel quality was less than desireable. I may be in the minority here on this concern, but it would greatly ease my concerns about the quality of the gun if the subject of steel quality and heat treatment (hardness) was covered in the reviews by journalists when dealing with gunmakers/sources that have not established a reputation of high quality.

So Tom,

"The bluing will be better..." How bad is it now?

"Going to bone charcoal..." What were the ones you saw finished in?

"Better wood coming..." The current wood is like what?

"Suggested they have choke tubes..." There goes half their market. Hope you didn't charge them a big consulting fee for that opinion.

"Not a renamed Turkish gun..." Made in Turkey, with a different name. What else could it be?

I'm still out of the loop.

I think Tom was clear that this is a completely new Turkish-made gun, not a renamed (existing) Turkish gun.