doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Lead Phase-out proposed for Montana uplands

Not here, not now!
...and nothing on the radar.
What goes on in Glenthorne Woods - stays in Glenthorne Woods.

Even the MN "study" points out that almost no scientific work has been done on the impact of lead on upland birds.

Short memories, I guess . . . The eagle was used as a "poster bird" (along with waterfowl, obviously) during the push for nontox for waterfowl. Well, since then, eagles are absolutely THRIVING. Their recovery is one of the great successes in modern wildlife management. It would seem that if the lead we continue to use in the uplands were a real problem, then we would not have seen eagle numbers grow as they have.

Also, how about wild turkeys? They do about as much pecking around on the ground as any game bird. Again, they are thriving to such an extent that they now exist, in good numbers, in places where they disappeared (or perhaps had never been?) long ago. If lead were a serious issue, wouldn't it have impacted them?

And apparently the authors of that resolution haven't noticed that lead prices are dropping.

Some people, acting in the guise of "conservationists", are far too eager to shoot hunters in the foot. With steel.

Did they find secondary lead poisoning of eagles that you know of?

I dove hunted in Argentina last year. There were "Shield" eagles hanging around us and preying on the dead and wounded dove, often grasping them in the air. I would think that an autopsy on a score of those eagles would be the definitive answer to the possibility of secondary poisoning.

Best,

Mike

Mike I may be wrong, but I think I read somewhere recently, maybe here, that Aregentina was considering the banning of lead shot? Someone had done some math on the number of tons of shot accumulated on the prime dove areas there....

That's a load of crap.

The destruction of the eagle populations had nothing to do with lead. The whole problem was poison used to kill predators. The solution was the banning of indiscriminate use of poisons to control predators. Those poisons killed all carrion eaters such as eagles..

I seldom post.... However I feel this thread deserves ALL our attention!
Robt. Harris has "nailed" what I see happening... Agenda driven and slick terms... Always filled with "might".. "may lead to".."could cause"....NO HARD DATA IN OTHER WORDS!
Then.....Some.....Maybe even with good (but mislead) intentions, jump on the band wagon and loudly cheer the hype as BSUBA seems to have done here. S A D - - - I can only hope the adverb "truly" is followed!
After being around lead in many forms in my work for over a half a century it seems many have placed ol' Pb in a catagory with cheese.... You know, getting stronger with age!

BSUBA's comments on non-tox prices are not true either.... Maybe steel.... But safe non-tox for our old guns still pales lead!

I won't hunt with steel.... and that's what some want to hear.

As I recall, they did find secondary lead poisoning of eagles. But it's pretty obviously not happening any more, or not to such a degree that eagles continue to be rare and endangered.

Without knowing the source I always tend to be suspicious. ALL studies are agenda driven and 99% are looking for specific results. Almost anything can be proven to a certain degree of persuasive certainty on paper.

Is non-tox already required for clay shooting in Montana? If not, I wouldn't want any game agency giving me any BS about lead because nowhere else will concentrations be remotely as high. This is little more than another thinly veiled incremental step in making hunting and shooting more costly and therefore less attractive to more people. If this type of stuff goes unchecked rest assured that no matter what or where you shoot sooner or later your shooting will meet the same fate.


Anyone that would make that statement deserves to have to pay through the nose to shoot nice shot or tungsten matrix. Just because a small percentage of hunters don't have better ways to waste money than $18-$20 boxes of lead doesn't justify a reason for 99% of hunters to spend on 2-3 shells what they currently spend for a box of 25. If you load your own you can have loads as good as any premium (make that premium priced) load and the margin in cost between them and non-tox alternatives to steel is even wider.


Skip

Lastdollar why wouldn't they just reclaim the shot like they do at gun clubs ?