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#197233 - 07/26/10 11:55 PM Re: Otto Geyger shotgun. Who made it? [Re: ellenbr]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8487
Loc: North Alabama


1st, I'll have to say that the marks on the tubes of this Muzzelschluß DR aren't on a O. Geyger but a W. Foerster. However, it does has the same addressing of the fences as those on O. Geyger's and J.J. Reeb's examples, but also a clamshell. The owner came thru with a lovely effort capturing 3 sets of "R.S." initials. I'd guess this A&D W. Foerster, as found in Bell's article in DGJ Vol. 5 Issue 3 at page 40, was made circa 1910-1912. I think it to be a transitional time when mechanization was taking the place of efforts that were previously performed by hand. I'd guess Bernhard Merkel filed the frame and Robert Schlegelmilch performed about anything that had to do with the tubes. Of course Richard Schüler has the same initials but in my opinion I don't think he could file his way out of a wet paper bag and was more of a firearms merchant or businessman than a in the trenches craftsman. Many mastercraftsmen recoginzed the writing on the wall and became very good businessmen, which in the end removed themselves from the actual work involved in making a quality piece. Now they knew what it should be, but sourced the components and subed the work or just sourced the longarm in the finished state with his name roll stamped on the top rib or tube. It was very difficult to be a mastercraftsman and a business man. The 2 could exist in harmony, or be synonymous early on, but were on diverging paths. I'm beginning to think H.A. Lindner was no different and was more of a business man who had an exceptional eye for quality. Some may disagree, but why are the initials of well established craftsmen found on his examples? At any rate the Berlin contingent, with the exception of Fischer and a few others, heavily sourced the craftsmen of Suhl and Zella-Mehlis for their example. Almost all the quality German pieces peddled were the effort of the mastercraftsmen in Suhl & Zella-Mehlis.

And then there's the ominpresent "K" in a rhombus or rotated square. There may be an exception, but all the clamshell's I've viewed had Krupp steel tubes.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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#197657 - 07/30/10 08:08 PM Re: Otto Geyger shotgun. Who made it? [Re: ellenbr]
ellenbr Offline
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Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8487
Loc: North Alabama



A lovely Bartels double from April 1929 and listed at G&H. Many thanks to Mr. Beach for his efforts in acquiring the pics. Note the "K" after the steel type. There aren't that many families with the last name "K" post WWI. Bartel's didn't make 344xx examples and I'd looks to Suhl for a maker having that serial number range in the late 1920s.

A DR by Ludwig Schiwy of Berlin with Böhler steel tubes with number 15xxx as found in DGJ Vol. 13, Issue page 74 has a very similar "K" on the lower rib. Schiwy didn't make 13k examples and with a April 1938 date at the Suhl proofhouse, I'd looks toward one of the Merkel craftsman as being the source for it.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse




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#200806 - 08/26/10 02:17 PM Re: Otto Geyger shotgun. Who made it? [Re: ellenbr]
ellenbr Offline
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Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8487
Loc: North Alabama
W. Foerster at Safari Outfitters: http://www.safarioutfittersltd.com/EuropeanPage10.htm

Looks like it was made during WWI or prior to 1923 in Suhl.







Is this Greener's Rational or a Facile Princeps variant? Anyone know if the term "Perch Belly" applies?



Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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#255089 - 12/05/11 05:47 PM Re: Otto Geyger shotgun. Who made it? [Re: ellenbr]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8487
Loc: North Alabama
Originally Posted By: ellenbr



O. Geyger with the "Sl" tube forge stamp just ahead of the flats. I still believe Berhnard Merkel played some part in the manufacture of these unique style frames as peddled by J.J. Reeb and other firearms merchants.



http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20i%20j%20k/a%20jamar%20freres%20gb.htm

Peter(PeteM), I think your suspicions on the Sl tube makers mark being of Belgian origin is one step closer to becoming acknowledged or vetted. I really don't think it is Brothers Jamar but their source for tubes. The stamps looks very similar and I think the probability of a tube making firm in Liege & Suhl to have the same stamp to be very low. So one of the Liege firms with a Krupp license, and other German I'm sure, was being sourced by the Suhl craftsmen.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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#255097 - 12/05/11 06:08 PM Re: Otto Geyger shotgun. Who made it? [Re: Peter Weber]
PeteM Offline
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Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4598
Loc: IL


Take a good look at the image on top of the page, a winged J with a crown. Dollars to donuts, they used that as trademark at one time.


Pete
_________________________
http://www.damascus-barrels.com/Movie.html



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#255113 - 12/05/11 07:15 PM Re: Otto Geyger shotgun. Who made it? [Re: Peter Weber]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8487
Loc: North Alabama
Peter:
What's the "Pieces Detachees Pour Fusils De Chasse" translate to? Do you think Jamart was into tubes?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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#255154 - 12/05/11 10:02 PM Re: Otto Geyger shotgun. Who made it? [Re: ellenbr]
PeteM Offline
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Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4598
Loc: IL
Originally Posted By: ellenbr
Peter:
What's the "Pieces Detachees Pour Fusils De Chasse" translate to? Do you think Jamart was into tubes?


"Spare parts for hunting guns" . I would not be surprised at all.

Pete
_________________________
http://www.damascus-barrels.com/Movie.html



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#255432 - 12/07/11 08:35 PM Re: Otto Geyger shotgun. Who made it? [Re: Peter Weber]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8487
Loc: North Alabama
Just wanted to add a pic of an E. Schmidt & Habermann dreilufer with an Sl stamp that I somehow moved or something on this Bochumer Verein thread:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=172393&page=2



Note that the Sl touchmark is coupled with the Witten steel type stamp.


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse



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#255693 - 12/09/11 11:20 AM Re: Otto Geyger shotgun. Who made it? [Re: Peter Weber]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8487
Loc: North Alabama
Here's an O. Geyger with Bhler Antinit steel tubes:


So PeteM were the Belgians churning out tubes of Bhler steel also?




Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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