doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Colt 1883 info please

Hello gents,

I know next to nothing about Colt shotguns, but one has caught my eye.

Are there any experts who can provide some info?

The engraving (dogs & birds) and the very fine damascus pattern really caught my eye.

No luck with internet search...........

Thanks in advance

Mark

Wallace Labisky had a series of articles on side-by-side shotguns in Shooting Times magazine back in the 1960's. Number ten in the series covered the Colt doubles. It was in the Shooting Times, Volume 7, No. 6, June 1966. I'm sure some of the dealers in books and paper that advertise in the Gun List can probably come up with a copy.

Don Hardin did an article on Colt doubles in The Double Gun Journal, Volume Four, Issue 2, pages 119-122.

Mark,

Are you about through with the stock making book you borrowed from me?

tbuffum@bendbroadband.com

I just had mine lettered as a grade 2, shipped Sept 12, 1892. It has dogs and scroll engraving and is a two barrel set. If you notice when the gun is opened the action rotates around the pin.
Or do a search on http://www.google.com/patents Paul

One odd note to add. Perhaps Researcher will know. The letter also stated under Special Features, concave matte ribs. Didn't all 1883's have concave matte ribs? Paul

Many consider the Colt 1883, the finest American made double.

I too have heard the stuff about Colts being the finest American made double, but having owned at least one of every American double ever made (in significant quantities), including a nice Colt, I just can't get on board with the "finest" rating. I mean, it was a real nice old boxlock (in fact, one of the earliest American boxlocks, wasn't it?), but quite heavy and in no way amazing, that I could ever discover. The fact is, there were an awful lot of nice doubles being made in the late 1800s, so where did this "finest" business start, and can it be in any way justified? Also, isn't there some evidence or suspicion that the '83 was at least partially built in Birmingham? Looking forward to hearing from the experts. TT

[quote=Terry Buffum]Mark,

Are you about through with the stock making book you borrowed from me?



ON THE RETURN OF A BOOK
LEANT TO A FRIEND

I GIVE humble and hearty thanks for the safe return
of this book which having endured the perils of my
friend’s bookcase, and the bookcases of my friend’s
friends, now returns to me in reasonably good con-
dition.

I GIVE humble and hearty thanks that my friend did
not see fit to give this book to his infant as a play-
thing, nor use it as an ash-tray for his burning cigar,
nor as a teething-ring for his mastiff.

WHEN I lent this book I deemed it as lost: I was re-
signed to the bitterness of the long parting: I never
thought to look upon its pages again,

BUT NOW that my book is come back to me, I re-
joice and am exceeding glad! Bring hither the fatted
morocco and let us rebind the volume and set it on
the shelf of honor: for this my book was lent, and
is returned again.

PRESENTLY, therefore, I may return some of the
books that I myself have borrowed.

Christopher Morley

From out of Africa. Its a shame to lose a friend over a book. I didn't he did

I took a look at a few Colt 1883s and of the ones I saw, the Grades 1 1/2 and 2 have swamped file cut ribs, while the Grade 1 has a swamped rib, but smooth Damascus. I am not sure if this held during the entire 1883 production.

Why you ask??? Because.....supposedly they where made in Birmingham! If so they have to be the finest ever! Right?? Thats a bunch of horse hockey! Give me a good Lefever anyday!

This is interesting. Would anyone have some pictures of the ribs on another Colt 1883. I would like to see if some are filed and some are what they refer to as matte. Or if they are one in the same. The matte obviously are filed but in a very fine cross checker pattern. Would that be a special order or is it the concave style rib? Paul

1890 manufacture



Unknown date of manufacture

Do you know the grade of the guns? The lower picture looks like the set I have here. The rib shows no damascus pattern except for on the sides. The pattern on the upper pic clearly shows the pattern. However both appear to be concave. Do either of these have a letter from Colt on them? Revdocdrew, Thank You. Paul Driscoll

Another Paul, and I'm trying to contact the owner of the first gun

I have the gun in the top pic, I believe it is a field grade gun. I've shot a few rounds of sporting clays with it and the gun is my favorite 12 ga to shoot.

Here is an example of a Grade 1, 1883 Colt 10 Ga. with 32 inch barrels. This gun was shipped October 10, 1888 per Colt Factory letter.

Although the angle of the photo does not show it well, it has a swamped rib with smooth Damascus per Daryl's post above.

I've got an 1883 in my collection that I bought as a future project. The metal work has remained surprisingly good, but the stock is lost to history and someone fitted it with a bad replacement (fortunately they didn't mess up the metal). In any event, I think it is a grade 3 (could be mistaken) and I intend to send for a letter on it at some point. It does have the matted ribs and there are some initials engraved in the upper tang. Here are a few pictures.

I missed this one...









Pete

The gun on Alex's post is a Grade 2. [highest of the three grades 1,1 1/2. and 2] Pete, I don't know what the one is that you picture. It must have a replaced hinge pin, but the engraving is not typical in design. The grade stamp should be stamped on the underside of the barrels.

Daryl, Good eye and valid points. Especially the engraving. "Those dogs don't hunt". They sure don't look like Colt to me. But what about those screw slot head pins in the corner of both guns . I beleive mine is original but it only has a standard pin. Never say never...original or not???

While we're on the subject-can anyone identify this mark?

Hammerback, all of my 1883s have the screw head on the lower right side.

Open mouth, insert foot. I was going on memory when I spoke. So I went to the safe to look. Screw head in corner.....original. Paul

I just got an email from Kathleen Hoyt,the Colt Firearms Historian. She has stated that "The Colt Model 1883 shotguns were all made at the Colt factory".
Jim

Using high quality damascus barrels made in Belgium
From http://heuse.spahistoire.info/henriheuse.html

I calculated our business since the year 1890 and I noted that we had bought franks for the sum of 2.150.000 dollars which we paid in Lochet, to my uncle (Henri Heuse) and with Plunger-Riga wire. I did not calculate the franks which we received for this sum (according to theCommunal one of Brussels, this sum corresponds to 2.305.616.614 franks in 1993)... the Colt fire Arms Co of Hartford Con bought the Damas most expensive like crollés and the Turkish Damas with six blades. When the Germans destroyed the manufacture of the Damas guns, that was a calamity for Nessonvaux. My dad is the man who bought the most Damas guns, he sold some more, all alone, which all others together. They are Riga which put the Damas gun forces some here...

Drew:
I'll pass this information back to Kathy Hoyt. I always thought the example I had was fitted with extremely fine barrels and I guess the above explains why
Jim

Daryl, thank you for the correction.

As to where the Colts were made, I'm not surprised that the barrels were Belgian. I believe even the Brits imported some of their damascus barrels, and all the Americans did, didn't they? Has it ever been established that damascus barrels were ever produced in quantity in the U.S.?

When I asked the question in the first place, I was thinking more about the actions, and could swear I've read speculation that Colt imported actions begun in Birmingham and then engraved, fitted barrels and stocked them stateside ... more of a Chas. Daly approach, except that, worried about their reputation, Colt tried hard to create the impression they built them from scratch, just like their handguns ... hugely successful worldwide and undeniably American-built. Then again, maybe I'm thinking of the 1878s or something. Any other thoughts on this? TT

TT,

You are correct to include the key word "quantity". Forge welded damascus has been produced in the US for a long time. But never in any verifiable quantity. I know Semmer claims that Remington was doing it, but that is speculation.

There are still a very few custom muzzle loader makers who can produce damascus, but none use the methods that the best English, Belgian, Italian, French and German makers were using 80+ years ago.

Yes, some English makers used Belgian barrels. Mostly toward the end of the damascus era. While we can trace many barrels on American guns to Belgium, others show up as well, especially English.

Unfortunately, the family antedote that Drew quoted is as close as we have come to actual data, except for makers marks on barrels. The customs house in Belgium once contained all this information, but the records were destroyed by war and flood over the years. There are only a few journals held by museums in Belgium that quote some of those records. Perhaps some day a researcher will take up the challenge.

Pete

Drew:

That is the provisional proof for the Gun-maker's Company(London) which is the letters "GP"(Gunmaker's Proof) interlaced in a Cypher surmounted by a rampant Lion.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The 1878 is not nearly the quality of the 1883.