doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Is original constriction definition of choke still appropriate?

Chokes and patterns are a very fluid thing. Hard shot tightens up a pattern, larger shot can as well. Higher velocity has a general opening effect by one of my doubles got better the faster the load until about 1275fps, at which point I stopped because recoil was not very pleasant. Ten different loads might give you patterns from one end of the spectrum to the other. Test to find out for sure.

When lead shot was OK for ducks and geese I loaded and tested a lot of buffered and non buffered loads and found a lot of great loads to use. None of them much use these days but one thing I took away from it was that inside 25 yards I could kill any geese or duck with a Skeet gun with almost certainty with the right load. A combination of I/C or Skeet and Full would be a very versatile double on the marsh. In fact my first duck gun was a 28 Ga. Model 12 with a tight Skeet choke. I killed just over 50% of the ducks I shot with it the first year. All with a 1 ounce load of number 6's out of a blind on our creek. Most shots were 20 yards and I had eyes of youth and reflexes of a young teenager. At least I still have the gun.

To assume any set number of constrictions will give you a certain pattern is just useless to me. If you want to know shoot patterns. Change loads and see what happens. You might find a load that you love or find it makes very little difference. I do know some loads which looked great on paper never killed game in they way I expected. I figured it was either operator error or the shot string was very long and a large part of the pattern missed the target. More likely operator error.

Don't worry about me Stan, I won't go over to the dark side. Choke is required for turkeys, waterfowl, and latter season doves. I use it. 1st season doves, bobwhite quail and practically everything else I shoot at, not so much...Geo

If I lived out West it would be a different story.

Isn't it also true that guns were tighter choked years ago as marked since they were using ammo before the invention of the plastic shot cup/wad. So an older gun marked Mod. with modern ammo with a plastic wad will pattern closer to a modern full choked gun

Usually so, yes.

SRH

While I shoot 16 ga cylinder and .005 over a dog at preserve shooting on wild upland birds its .005 & .010, for duck .015 & .025

Geo while I am sympathetic to more open chokes After going a season of cylinder cylinder I found for me it did not work.

While I agree that many go overchoking I think the other extreme is misguided for most. At both end of the spectrum there will be shooters who do well, but most need a middle path.

Cylinder is very useful for a lot of upland hunting over good dogs. Quail as well as grouse and woodcock (you may need more for late season grouse) come to mind. First barrel for pheasants . . . Dave, I agree that you don't need much choke--again, with good dogs--unless you're hunting birds that are unusually spooky. Cylinder is likely OK even for prairie grouse, early in the season. Later, when they're mostly in big bunches and hard to approach, you do need more.

Cylinder won't do everything, for sure, but it will do a lot. The late Bob Brister was clearly a fan: " . . . I do know that at 25 yards, a pure-cylinder barrel will throw one of the deadliest game-getting patterns you ever looked at, more efficient at that yardage than a full-choke barrel at 50 yards."

Re Lord Ripon, back in his day, driven birds were not long-range targets. (Nor are they today, unless you go to one of the places that specializes in ultra-high birds.) I had the pleasure of shooting driven next to a gentleman who was a very fine shot. He was shooting a long-barreled OU (more and more common these days on driven shoots). I asked him what chokes he was using. "Hardly any," he replied. Where I've shot driven, a 40 yard bird is unusually high, and you're a real hero if you make many of those shots. Most birds are well within 30 yards. They're challenging for most of us on this side of the pond (maybe less so for guys who do more dove and/or waterfowl shooting) because we're not used to that kind of shooting at pheasants. And the red grouse of Scotland and northern England are, in general, even lower. They're difficult for reasons other than range.

When that rich relative, that I know nothing about, passes and leaves me "comfortable" I'm going to do the driven grouse deal, Larry. Until then, it's just a dream. But, I haven't given up hope.

SRH

I think the thing to know about cyl choke is that it usually shoots really good patterns, but the shot disperses quickly. You need to have the experience to judge the effective range of the gun you are shooting. Beyond its effective range cyl bore becomes an unsportsmanlike game wounding proposition..Geo

Ya, in my case I'll use this 12 gauge Cyl/IC shotgun for early pheasants and ruffed grouse. I've got pointing dogs taught by the school of wild birds, so the vast majority of these shots are under 30 yards, and mostly under 25. I can't imagine a better choke than Cylinder for these shots. I've had MORE trouble lately missing close birds because I don't want to ruin them, and then miss the head shot, or ride them out which isn't always a good option in heavy cover. Fortunately, like any good boy scout I have another 5 upland shotguns to fall back on if I need more choke.

Dave-

How often do you have to replace the garage door?

Mike