doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Simon Shotgun

Some time ago pictures and info was posted about a Boxlock S X S marked made by J Jos Simon for J H Cummins Santa Rosa CA SN 103. There appears to be a Birmingham proof mark and the barrels are Fluid Steel KR. The remainder of the Krupp is not visible. There are no other marking on the gun. We did learn Simon was a Gunsmith in CA in 1900 and Cummins listed himself as a "capitalist" and was living in Hawaii. Today I learned a little more.Had the gun in the shop due to left firing pin sticking in the primer. Gunsmith cleaned action and later told me the firing pin was integral with the hammer. Does this point to an English action or a European action? Anyone have any ideas?

PS I am a lousy photographer and too dumb to learn how to post pictures.

I think the 700 series Webley and Scotts use that hammer. A friend had one break last season, right at pheasant opener, and was without the gun until well after the season closed.
Can't say that that fact alone would nail it as either/or, English or continental.
Best,
Ted

Wilkes-Barre had that type of firing pin and they were designed by Tonks.
Bob

Forgot something in my earlier post which might be pertinent.
Action has intercepting sears, DT, and extractors.

Mickey it is doubtful that anyone will be able to identify your gun without good photos. A photo of the proofmarks would also be very helpful. My guess is Spanish or Belgium. Most likely the later.

I still have the pictures you sent me. With your permission, I can post them for you.

Pete

I believe that Simon was working in Chicago before he moved to Santa Rosa. I have seen a hammer gun from Chicago and hammerless from California. Does your gun perhaps have a A&D number on the action?
I believe that he was a Austrian trained gunsmith but have not check on that.

Mike,

I did some digging a while back on Simon. Here is what I have so far....

Joseph J Simon was in Chicago in 1880 working in a "car shop". He is listed as Bohemian by birth. I assume a couple of things. "Car Shop" is referring to street car, where he was possibly a mechanic or some one who cleaned the cars.

He lived in Illinois until at least 1885, his daugther Elizabeth was born in Chicago. By 1899 he is in California where his daugther Gladys is born.

The 1890 census data is not available.

In 1900 Joseph J Simon, Austrian by birth, is working as a gunsmith. His son, Joseph F Simon is working as a clerk for Wells Fargo. Is there a connection here? I am not sure....

The nationality changes reflect the changing map of Europe.

I can not find Joseph J in the 1910 or 1920 census. However, I do find Joseph F living in San Francisco working as book keeper.

So the output of Joseph J Simon as a gunsmith has to be very limited. JH Cummins only shows so far in 1900. He was a "capitalist" who went to Hawaii. His wife was born in Portugal.

Simon in the 1900 census


Cummings in the 1900 census


Given the above, it would be logical to assume the gun dates between 1890 and 1910.

However, I do not know the actual maker. Here are some pictures that may help.





























Pete

May I suggest that you change your title to "Simon Shotgun" so we might find the owner of the hammer gun with the Simon and Chicago name on it, might even find more info that we can add to this maker. Sellers has J.J. Simon in California from 1893 but "California Gunsmiths" does not have him at all.

I'll run this back up to the top with hopes that another Simon will show up. There were many fine custom shogun makers in California, for whatever reason I don't see many of them anymore.