doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Way OT -- General George S. Patton Jr.

Yeah, I am not happy now nor was I when I was in country, with the way things were done in Vietnam. We wasted lives on both sides,for purely political motives, as opposed to tactical imperatives.I was fortunate not to be in a "grunt" outfit and escaped much of the "trial and error" tactics tried by our esteemed Washington politico "wannabe"platoon leaders.I did my tour as a radio operator in a Marine recon platoon.

RHD45-and others- whether USMC, Navy, Army- Infantry, Armored or Airborne, all of us who served,in "Uncle Ho's Playground"-this was a "War" with command decisions made by the REMF's-and the "Body Count" criteria- some seeking promotion "adjusted" those counts-we all paid the price for allowing politicians to decide military policy-and in the end, what did we gain? A foreign Country laid to waste, and of no apparent threat to the USA, 58,xxx names on a Black Wall in D.C., Veterans spit on and called "baby killers' by the peacenicks in San Fran airport-I have two close buddies with their names on The Wall- One was in 3rd. MarDiv 24th Reg't 2nd Bn. the other in Army 2nd. Armored Div. 11th. Reg't 1st Bn. both KIA- I sometimes go out on the deck late at night, and watch the stars with a "nightcap" and think about them and wonder what their lives would have been had things come out differently -tonight, I'll say a silent prayer for all you brother Veterans who posted here on this Patton thread and elsewhere- Thanks to each and every one of you guys for what you did for our Country when duty called !!

Larry - Thank you for setting me straigth on JFK and Diem.

My pint which I failed to make, is most likley Patton died from a freak accident, but if he was bumped off - it would most likely be done by the Soviet Agents, some even within the US Government at the time.

I share the fascination with Patton, but I think it is a real tragedy that probably our greatest soldier (and a great civilian statesman as well), George C. Marshall, seems so little remembered today. He picked almost all the major army commanders, down to division and sometimes RGT level, and vetted the army air commanders for the war, having trained many of them at the infantry school at Ft. Benning in the 30s. At that school he worked out the concept of the "holding attack" which made the best use of the army's new triangular force structure after abandoning the "square division" concept from WWI. His concept here was simple, but eminently suited for a large force recruited from civilian life with very few professional company grade leaders. He handled the unbelievable complexity of building an army and air force of about 10 million and managing much of the war production that went with it (kudos to Somervell, McNair, Handy, etc). Probably most of all he had to manage FDR's, British and Ernie King's personalities. I can clearly envisage winning the war without Patton, MacArthur or even Eisenhower(also a great manager), but without Marshall, it's a lot longer, tougher war.

"And JFK didn't plot to kill Diem. CIA did have contacts within the group that plotted the coup, but it was not a CIA plot, and they reported the information to DC. The decision was made at "the highest level" not to warn Diem. Somewhat similar to what happened to Allende a decade or so later in Chile."

That's accurate, Larry. I think it would also be accurate to say, on the evidence, that JFK was complicit in the despot's death. The "highest level" Looney Tooney, can't-shoot-straight attempts to kill Castro didn't produce the same results.

King, I agree--complicit in the sense we did not warn Diem. That's somewhat less complicit, I think, than Nixon in the case of Allende. Nixon did not order him killed, but he did order CIA to "destabilize" the country, which resulted in the coup that brought Pinochet to power. (CIA told Nixon they could not guarantee the outcome of the "destabilization".)

Postoak, there were indeed a bunch of Soviet agents in the US government during WWII--including some in OSS. McCarthy was not entirely wrong about the Commie threat, but he painted with far too broad a brush.

Researcher- Patton was supposedly on his way to a pheasant hunt in Germany Dec 1945 when his driver swerved to avoid an incoming 6X6 truck at a RR crossing- no seat belts- Patton apparently went forward and struck his neck or head on the partially raised glass divider- and that impact may have been the cause of his death-I can't speak about the "Plots" or OSS or CIA- sure the Russians hated him-but anyway-does anyone know what shotgun he had with him- or did he borrow one from another Staff member or Brother Army Officer to hunt with- if he had both a .410 and a 28 gauge CHE skeet gun- my guess is they were Stateside at his home- when did Parker first introduce the Skeet model-was it after the Remington ownership in 1934?

Many of our famous Generals owned Parker Bros. doubles. John J. Pershing had a straight grip DH-Grade that was presented to him at the 1921 Yale-Army game by Dexter W. Parker.

Billy Mitchell had several Parkers including a great 1929-vintage BHE-Grade 10-gauge with 34-inch barrels.

General Patton had a DHE-Grade 20-Gauge that is now in the museum at West Point. The initial shield on that guns says " G.S.P. Jr. 1916". His CHE-Grade Skeet Guns are very late Remington Parkers and the intial shields are engraved "G.S.P. Jr. 1941". Last I heard the Skeet Guns still resided with two different family members. I think the Skeet model per se was introduced just about the time DuPont bought the Parker Gun Works, 1934.

Pershing also owned a Ithaca, I saw it at a friend's house. It was either a 4E or 5E in 20 or 16 ga. Dang, pretty good memory, suprising that I remembered that it was even an Ithaca.

Patton's DHE 20 gauge is not in the "museum at West Point". When the photo session for "The Parker Story" was concluded, the little 30" pheasant gun returned to its home in Maryland. The attribution in "The Parker Story" was either an error or meant to divert a collector search for the gun. It is not for sale, nor are the other two Parkers connected to GSP Jr.