doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com ATF regs ?

I am hoping someone can confirm my understanding of ATF regulations having to do with retail firearm sales other than "over the counter"? As I understand a FFL dealer may sell to a concealed carry permit holder without doing a NICS check and this exception further allows that a INTRAstate firearm transactions can be made without the seller and buyer meeting face to face? That is, that the buyer sends a copy of his permit along with a completed 4473 form and the seller mails the buyer the gun. This exception is made as result of the previous requirements for the carry permit. Do I have this correct? Thank-you greatly, Kurt ( I have been to the ATF site and this is my interpretation of what I have read there)

ben-t:

I will try and answer this to the best of my knowledge.

A concealed carry or pistol permit, can be used as an alternative to a NICS/Brady check in a limited number of States.

However, I do not believe this applies to an Inter-State transfer.

I am pretty certain, that the FFL must ship the firearm to another FFL. If the recieving FFL State accepts the CC permit as an alternative to a NICS check, you fill out the 4473 and off you go. Pennsylvania does not accept the CC or pistol permit as a NICS alternative.

Example, I hold a CC permit in Virginia. FFL still has to ship firearm to my FFL in Virginia, who then does a 4473 transfer and the NICS/Virginia State Police check, as Virginia does not accept the permit as an alternative.

Someone may chime in differently, but that is how I read and understand it.

Kind regards,

Ben:

I had an ffl for 30 years and have not heard that one.

John Boyd

Depending on the requirements for obtaining a CCW in your state than your CCW may exempt you from a NICS check.

The transfer must still be face to face you can't recieve the gun through the mail either interstate or intrastate.

DH

Hi Ben,
GP answered your question pretty well. However, you asked about Intrastate(within the same state) transactions. Feds are not involved with intrastate transfers. In many states private sales may be shipped directly to the buyer. The Feds get involved in Interstate(between two states) transfers. In my state(Utah), having a CC permit eliminates the need for a background check in either type of transfer. Receiving a gun interstate however, must involve an FFL holder to receive the gun and to complete the legal transfer. Here, the FFL must call to confirm that my CC permit is still valid but the background check is not necessary.

Yes I agree completely with the instruction on inter(between)state transactions. Jim has accurately pointed to my question involving transactions intra(inside)state. I had to confirm these terms for myself so I understand a casual misread of my question.

I tried to post the ATF web address to the FAQ and answers, but once I did my attempts to connect using it did not work(i don't know why?). The information I got from the site was by following this path once on the atf website http://www.atf.gov/firearms then FAQ, Firearms FAQ, ATF Form 4473-Firearms Transaction Record, Private Sales. Then question & answers: p28, p32, and p52. If you want to read them yourself? Thanks to all for your replies!

Man, I must need new glasses, because I missed the INTRA vice INTERState.

I still say however, that the Feds are involved in a within State transfer based on the fact that you fill out a 4473. Unless, it is a totally private, within State purchase between two private citizens. If that is the case, a CC permit would not matter anyway.

If it is a within State purchase from an FFL, a NICS/Brady check is still required unless you are in one of the few States which accepts a CC Permit as an alternative. If I am reading your location of W. PA as Pennsylvania, they do not. Additionally, I doubt that it can be lawfully accomplished via mail or other commercial carrier.

Gunplumber, You are correct in regard to Pennsylvania being excluded from the list. Apparantly there is something about this state the can't be trusted? The government perhaps? Thanks for the help.

I do not believe that is correct. Here is from the ATF website

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b7

To me that seems to say if it is a private party (non-ffl) sale and you are both in the same state, then you do not need to be face to face. Am I missing something?

Erik, that's correct but his original question was about a purchase from and FFL holder, hence the need to fill out the 4473.

DH