doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Fiocchi 616 equivalent

Anybody know a close cross reference? I use the Fiocchis in my 2.5" sixteens & twenties. I have some nice low pressure loads that I don't want to compromise, but the Fiocchis are mail order only around here.

I've used them, Nobel Sports and Remington STS interchangeably although I don't buy anything but the Italians anymore.

Tom, I don't know what can replace it safely. I also reload low pressure 2 1/2" 16's and 20's and I use Win. 209 and Rem. 209P, along with a few loads with Fed. 209A's. I've read that Cheddite 209 and Win. 209 are compatable.

I don't have pressure equipment, but velocities with Fio 616s usually fall between those with the mild STS209s and the hotter Win 209s.......I'd say they're closer to the Winchesters. Brissance charts are problematic, as rankings can change with even a change in payload, as Tom Armbrust's site shows. Over on the reloading forum at shotgunworld there are a number of folks who feel you can use Winchesters and Fiocchis interchangeably. I would agree, provided you aren't anywhere near a maximum load.

Sam

Tom,
You're statemnet kinda says it all.
As for the primer change, I think it all depends on how close you want (or need) to stay within your designed PSI range.
I have found that when working with low pressure loads. Even a small component change, like two primers that are supposed to be interchangeable, can have a big affect on pressure.
If you are shooting a Damascus gun and want to stay within a certain PSI range. The only way you're going to know how the primer change will affect your load, is to get it tested.

Relative Brissance charts can be misleading. Do not substitute components.
But, relative brissance going from mild to hot is:

CCI 109, or 209
Rem 209 Premier Sts, Rem 209 P, Rem 97
Win 209, Chedite 209
Fiocchi 616
CCI 209M
Fed 209A
So the Fiocchi is a tad hotter than the Win/Ched 209's.

This is a better illustration of the difficulty in applying brissance charts.

http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/primersubs.htm

Sam

Thanks guys, but seeing that I can't seem to find anybody even selling Fiocchi's I'm going to follow Daves advise and submit some for testing w/ winchester or cheddites 209's

Tom,
I sent you a PM over on the other site.

Why not order a few thousand by mail and get what you need and have the loads you want? Mails deliver what you need if you use them. I get tired of driving around not finding what I want and will order on line what I need whenever I get the chance.