doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Reminton 1889 hammer 10 gauge loads

With decarbonized barrels. Anyone shooting "modern" 2 7/8 pressure loads in these? I am selling empties and wads to someone about to load for his. thanks

I'm sure there are people out there shooting Super-Ten loads in old Remington Model 1889 hammer guns, but sure I wouldn't!! Once upon a time I was in the next blind over, in the public Goose hunting area along the Columbia River, from an Indian shooting 3 1/2 inch Magnum-Ten gauge loads out of an old Damascus barrel Crass Model Ithaca!!

I'm lazy when it comes to my 10-gauge guns, and just shoot my light 12-gauge reloads in them using Silver Gauge-Mates.

When I stated modern 10 gauge loads I was refering to the 2 7/8 length shell that was loaded by either winchester or remington until the mid 1980's. It was loaded with 1 5/8 oz. of shot. Not the 3 1/2 magnum with 2 oz or more of shot.

The 2 7/8 inch 1 5/8 ounce load is the Super-Ten. It came out in the mid-1920s and was a BIG jump from the heaviest previously offered factory 10-gauge loads of 1 1/4 ounce. The 3 1/2 inch case with a 2 or more ounce load is the Magnum-Ten. It was introduced circa 1932 with the beefed up Ithaca NID to handle it. That seems to have been the first use of term "Magnum" in American shotshells. Then about 1935 Winchester/Western upped the payload of the 3-inch 12-gauge Super-Speed/Super-X shell to 1 5/8 ounce and called it the 3-inch magnum.

thanks, I did not know that.

I have a box of Western Super X, short shot string, 2 7/8" 1 5/8 oz #4s and a box of Remington UMC Nitro Club # 6s along with some "Kleen Bore" Remington Express Long Range. But I have one Western Record 3 1/2" Super Magnum 10 bore paper hull high brass without the shot. And on the cartridge it states: "Use only in guns weighing 10 1/2 pounds or more, with 3 1/2" chambers and modern steel barrels." And these started to be produced in 1932?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Yes. The Ithaca Magnum-Ten NID first appears in the 1932 Ithaca catalogue. Wasn't in the 1931-32 catalogue. The Magnum-Ten had a longer frame for better leverage for the rotary bolt, and the bottom of the barrel lug extended through a recess in the bottom of the frame for an extra bearing surface. The Magnum-Ten also had a larger diameter hingepin then the standard NID. About 1936 or 7 Ithaca quit offering the Super-Ten built on the regular NID frame and chambered for 2 7/8 inch shells, and started offering a 3-inch Magnum 12-gauge on the same frame as the Magnum-Ten.

Magnum frame NID



Regular frame NID



Ithaca reportedly made about 887 true 3 1/2-inch Magnum-Ten bores (Serial numbers in the 500,000 range) plus quite a few 2 7/8-inch Super-Tens in the regular serial number range 425,000 and up. The Magnum-Tens weigh in at about 10 1/2 to 11 pounds while the Super-tens were about nine pounds, but some were special ordered as light as 8 1/4 pounds. Capt Curtis had a 28-inch straight-gripped Grade 4E Super-Ten made up in 1931 that weighed 8 1/4 pounds. While Parker Bros. continued to offer 10-gauge guns during the years of the Super-Ten and Magnum-Ten, their 10-bore production was barely a trickle compared to Ithaca.

I have several Western Cartridge Co. booklets by Capt. Askins on the Super-X shot shell. The earliest 1922 just covers the 12-gauge in 2 3/4 inch and 3-inch, and the 20-gauge 2 3/4 inch. It also mentions the 16-gauge Super-X shell is coming. The next dated 5-28 includes the 16-gauge, the 2 1/2 inch .410-bore with a full half ounce of shot and the Super-Ten. The next dated 4-30 has the addition of the Lubaloy copper-plated shot. The last one dated 11-33 includes the Magnum-Ten, the 28-gauge Super-X in a 2 7/8 inch case with a full 3/4 ounce of shot, and the new 3-inch Super-X .410-bore shell with 3/4 ounce of shot.

So, except for the NID Ithaca doubles and a very few late Parker Bros. 10-gauge doubles, none of the classic American 10-gauge doubles were ever built with either the Super-Ten or the Magnum-Ten shells in mind.

During the time frame Remington, L.C. Smith, Lefever, Syracuse Arms, Winchester Models 1887 and 1901 and other American companies were building 10-guage guns, the heaviest available factory loads were 1 1/4 ounce of shot.