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Forums10
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Mar 29th, 2024
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544 |
I have just turned up an interesting story. as many of you know, Holland & Holland did not have a factory until 1893. Before that, their guns were supplied by W&C Scott, some being finished and stocked by John Robertson.
In 1893 Holland & Holland opened their own factory in London and since that time all Holland & Holland guns have been made in London. They commenced production with teh serial number 17000 in 1893.
Today, I took delivery of a Holland & Holland hammer gun. I thought it interesting because it has steel barrels and a bar action, rather than the usual Scott back-action type.
When I began digging in the records, I dicovered this useful information tayyied with the serial number on my gun - 17000!
I believe I have the first 'real' Holland & Holland London-made gun. And who said there is nothing left to find?!
The gun is in unrestord condition, needs re-proofing and a bit of cosmetic cleaning up but the walls are 28 thou at their thinnest and well over 35 thou in most of their length. It will be a very nice gun and I'm very much looking forward to puttting the first 'London H&H' to use on pheasants before the season is over.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588 Likes: 9
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588 Likes: 9 |
I thought there were stories of H&H having a few guns including Royals made by another firm in England? Maybe in the 1970-80's?
Not that it takes away from your cool find.
Mike
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 996 Likes: 9
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 996 Likes: 9 |
Let's see some pictures.
Can you cock both hammers readily with your trigger hand thumb? I ask as part of the debate on how to carry a hammergun loaded in the field.
Regards
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 602
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 602 |
What a wonderful find! I look forward to hearing and seeing more!
I believe that the first ever Beesley patent Purdey was re-discovered some years back; it had been handed by a grandfater to his ne'er-do-well grandson; grandson lopped the barrels and stock and held up a shop 'cos he was short of cash; he was caught; police were the ones to contact the makers and discover it's history...
RG
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15 |
Wow! what a find. With documentation, it could be an extremely valuable gun, I would think.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 568
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 568 |
I would think that H & H would pay much just to rent the gun from you to have it on display when you are not using it. Fantastic Find! Congrats. Slate
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544 |
Holts just sold Harris holland's 4-bore double live pigeon gun and i know someone who has Mr Froome's 120-bore . H&H were not interested in buying either!
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,271 Likes: 201
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,271 Likes: 201 |
Smallbore, I think that Hollands guns started at 16,000 [to 16999] in 1893. I have a copy of a production record on a typical late Royal dated late in that range in 1897. Were the hammer guns in a different group of numbers that include guns and rifles?
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544 |
Donald Dallas lists their records for the new factory in 1893 beginning with 17000. I'm going to give him a call later and have a chat about it.
BTW I took it to bits last night to clean it - it was pretty dirty but no corrosion. alcohol and cotton buds with a bit of fine wire wool lifted the dirt nicely and the engraving is really very nice. Locks and springs are very high quality.
Last edited by Small Bore; 12/14/07 11:51 AM.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,271 Likes: 201
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,271 Likes: 201 |
If you look closely at Dallas' book, it lists "Guns" from serial 16000-16999 from 1893-1897. It also lists "Guns and Rifles" from 17000-18000 from 1893-1905. This section of serial numbers seems more confusing than others, but from my observation, the 16000 serial range included the Royals. I don't think you find these in the 17000 range, but never say never.
There are also Paradox guns in the 15000-15600 serial range made 1891-1902.
Last edited by Daryl Hallquist; 12/14/07 01:23 PM.
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