doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Pieper Bayard double on Gunbroker - Any thoughts?

Any opinions on what the gun might be worth? $1500 is the opening bid. Although a Belgian make, per the seller, most of the proof marks are German. I see 10.16 on one of the barrel flats, maybe indicating Oct 1916? Any thoughts, opinions, idle speculation are welcome. I don't have any personal experience with Pieper, but from what I've read they made good guns, and this one doesn't seem to be JABC.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=78680269

Here's some infro about the maker, and not JABC
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/art...%20ets%20gb.htm
The left barrel flat (unfortunately not pictured) should have a Belgian date of production code
See http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=17575181
Pete M should be along with more infro

I would ask if the seller actually measured those chokes.I would want to be sure those barrels are not cut,its kinda hard to tell from the picture one way or the other.

If the gun is intact the "buy it now" price dosen't seem out of line. David

In looking at his other offerings he has a torch job that he describes as "Excellent as professionally restored"

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=79185714

scary !At least no mention of the "master gunsmith"

With the gauge in a circle would but it before 1939. And I agree with the 10.16 or 3.15(313,318 or whatever is below 10.16) being the date, but a better pic would reveal the truth. I don't see the Belgian Perron stamp; therefore, it may be a German double with Belgian barrels. My concern would be the screw thru the head of the stock: was it original or has the head of the stock cracked at some point.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

That gun has been up on GunBroker for over 2 months and he still has not dropped the price...says something to me about the asking price.

I believe it is a Bayard model 573 which uses the Anson Deeley design. Exactly how long Pieper produced this design I am not sure, but I believe he started marketing it some time after 1900.

Of the marks I can clearly see:
12 in a Circle is the gauge designation used in Germany 1891-1939
Crown over N is the nitro designation used in Germany 1891-1939
Choke markings used in Belgium 1910-1924
It as also shows a superior Belgium proof stamp on the barrels. Which means it passed a heavier proof load than required by Belgian law at the time.

So, by the proof marks, some time between 1910 and 1924. Which makes sense to me. I am guessing it was made for the German sporting market post WWI. It has the traditional sling swivels. So it was used as a hunter at one time or another.

On a side note, Henri Pieper was actually of German descent, which most people do not know.
Pricing for it? No one has even bid the opening bid in all the time it has sat there. I think the seller is off by about $1,000. It is a nice English clone, however, if that is what you are after for that price there are plenty of real English guns around.

Pete

Why think that the colors are a torch job?
What looks odd to me is the fit of the barrels to the breech. It is possible that the barrels are replacements that were made in Belgium.
If we consider the condition of the German and Belgian gun industry just after WW1, we can see that a small shop may have put this gun together from what was available.
I agree that this is at least $1000 out of reality.
Best,
John

John,
I was refering to the Sauer here that the same seller had;
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=79185714
Thats a torch job !
not the overpriced Bayard.All this sellers guns could be called out of reality I agree

Raimey mentioned the screw in the head of th stock, I've owned 2 Bayards, both had decorative screws thru the stock and each one had the checkering cut around them..I'm convinced they were made that way..MDC