doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Beware of dealing with Gary Downey at Osprey Arms

Wouldn't take but 5K to get the guy back on track...Geo

Agree here, John. If it was weeks or maybe months later, it's too late to bit ch about bad news. I have the feeling there's a lot more to this story. There needs to be definitive proof Osprey had the gun redone, not just hearsay. My opinion: the gun was grossly overpriced at $15K, and even at $10K not a good buy, more like a $6500 gun afaic. Not judging, just saying, but buyer's remorse can pull out a lot of animas.
JR

As I said in my original post, the inspection period had long passed. Turning a blind eye to re-blued barrels, etc., is one thing…I'm sure sellers do it all the time. But when you talk to a dealer and specifically ask them if the item they have for sale has been refinished, and they lie to your face/ear, that's something else entirely.

After seeing the auction listing, I called Gary to see what he knew about the gun, and he started yelling at me. If he had told me the truth about the gun when I asked him, I never would've purchased it!

I think called him about the gun a year later, but he's the one who said, "We will work something out." long after the inspection period had passed.

It’s not buyers remorse, it’s being lied to that bothered me!!!

Did he ever admit to having the gun redone?
JR

I purchased a 1930’s vintage Arthur Howell 3” BLNE from Gary 10-12 years ago, with no issues…

"Well, he ignored me for the next few months. I finally sent him an email telling him I wanted to return the gun and to make sure he reimbursed me for the return shipping. He agreed and asked me to send the tracking information."


I personally think this part of your argument ends the argument. It doesn't matter if you were in fact ripped off, or it was buyer's remorse, you held onto to the gun for too long.

I bought a Model 21 from a well-known dealer. While discussing its condition on the phone I specifically asked if the gun had been reblued. The person on the phone with the company replied, no it is all original. When I received the gun, it was clearly reblued. I never left my receiving FFL with it, I had him ship it right back. Once received back by them I had to be proactive with getting a full refund. I could have lived with it if it had been reblued correctly, and he did better on the price. But it wasn't and he claimed it was all original.

Most dealers will make good, but you have to do your part. A few well-known dealers exhibit a stunning lack of candor. Not necessarily lying, but not telling you everything either, unless you ask. You want to buy a gun; they want to sell a gun. Its why they call it a deal.

You have to move quickly on this sort of thing, and "the next few months" is on you, I believe. JMHO.

I sold a double to a dealer in PA. It was a shooter, not collector gun with wear and most of the finish worn away. About a year later I saw the same gun listed for sale on his website. Description was mint, almost un-fired, highly collectable condition and very rare to find in such condition. But you could not see the serial number so was not 100% certain it was in the fact the same gun. So I called and asked about the gun. When given the serial number to confirm date of manufacture it was my old gun. I asked about it being refinished and was told in no uncertain terms it was not. "All factory finish." Then I asked him if remembered me selling him that same gun about a year ago. Crickets. I then asked him if he wanted a couple photos of the before refinished gun? Crickets and then dial tone. That dealer was not the same as the one here but when you hear high condition, you need to be very skeptical and consider few nice things go unused for decade after decade. I am sorry for the buyers loss and think it should be a tail of caution for us all.

There must be a school that dealers go to that teaches how to take pictures of guns that do not answer questions that potential buyers might have. If I had a dollar for every “High grade Darne V-whatever” that was ever posted on the web that did not show the barrel flats, thus keeping a prospective buyer from knowing EXACTLY what they were looking at, I could buy the factory and move it here. I’ve been the bearer of bad news far too many times over the years, to guys who bought a mid grade R who were sold a V model. I hate it.

Good example:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...ked-f-f-make-offer-.cfm?gun_id=102658703

I’m at the point where if there isn’t a clear photo of the flats, I tell interested folks to move along. The dealers play stupid, but, they’re not.

Jon, the very worst of those guys seem to have met their reward. I haven’t seen the phrase “never had a screw turned” in a long, long time.


Best,
Ted

I once found an Ithaca 28 at a low price that lacked photos of the flats and water table. This was a large dealer on GB. I asked about pictures and they made no bones that they couldn't take them because the gun was modified so that you couldn't remove the barrels. In the ad they alluded to work done in a manner that made me suspect that was the case. They updated the ad to reveal the situation. I wanted to buy the gun because I believed I knew what the problem was, and I could repair it. I bid up to a point about half of a repaired value. It finally went to a rather notorious dealer at about what it would be worth after repair. A month later, it appeared on his site at a price about twice what any reasonable person would pay.

These people irk me because they take useful or desireable guns out of the market, add them to the 1000-2000 guns they are trying to market and which they never sell, so that collectors may not have access to them for years to come.

I often think that if the inventory of around 10 dealers I am familiar with were to come to market all at the same time at true market prices, the double gun market would collapse.

About a year ago, I stopped at a used car dealer's to look at a older Ford Ranger. It was in very good condition. And when the salesman came out to talk to me, I can't believe that he told me the story-- "It was only driven by a little old lady to church on Sundays." I thought he was kidding, so I asked him to repeat it- and he said the same phrase over again and he was dead serious. I could not believe that somebody would say such a thing when they were trying to sell a used car. 😏 But maybe it was true.🙃