doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Gauges and payloads

Stan might know this but I wonder if more than a few shooters take into account shot drop at 50, 60 yards and greater range. It is real. Consider that your pattern is expanding and falling from the second it exits the barrel. Mostly the expanding pattern corrects for the pattern dropping but once you get much past 40 yards the pattern expansion starts to get too thin around the edges to make up for the lower point of pattern impact.

Years ago I had a friend shooting lead shot, who could kill ducks pass shooting at 75-80 yards. Ducks cut the corner of our field and were flying within about a ten yard wide highway. Directly behind our blind heading to a pond in the field. He had an Ithaca Mag10 loaded with 2 1/8 ounce lead shot at a hot back then 1300fps. We patterned that gun at 40, 50, 60 and 70 yards. He knew the pattern size and the drop at those ranges. He taped a cheat sheet to his shooting bag. 70 yards he allowed for three feet drop. By trial and error he got so good he could kill two out of three ducks at 70 yards. He explained he used 14 feet of lead with 3 feet hold over the flight line. I borrowed his gun and killed the second and fourth duck I shot at. I forgot to hold over on the third shot and got nothing. He said, and I agree I did not have enough lead on the first shot. I wish we could use lead shot these day. Our best loads were whimpy by todays standards.

I'm with Stanton on this one. For me, it is not about cost or recoil. I realize some of us are on a budget. Others may have an injury or are at an advanced age in life where recoil is a genuine concern. Using 3/4 oz. in a 12 gauge will definitely save you money. However, whether you are shooting clays or live birds I want a decent amount of shot in the air. if you shoot competition you will understand why. 1 1/8 ounce of shot in a 12 gauge just "feel right" to me. I shoot all the gauges as well including 4 and 8 gauge. I shoot 1 1/8 ounce in a 12 gauge for the same reason I shoot 1/2 ounce in a .410 bore. Can you imagine shooting 1/4 ounce in a .410 gun? Doesn't make sense does it? When it comes to pattern and pure enjoyment I prefer shooting a light 10 at everything. Live birds get 1 1/4 ounce of English 7's with black powder or smokeless. When shooting clays I like using short 12 gauge inserts in my 10 with 1 1/8 ounce of 8's or 9's depending whether I am shooting sporting clays or skeet. Can't beat the pattern characteristics of a 10 bore period...well that is not entirely true as the 8 gauge is slightly better but not very practical. The old guys knew that back in the day. The extra weight doesn't bother me as a heavier gun settles into the hands better for me anyway.

Jon, a gentleman I know quite well teaches how to shoot sporting clays and at this one shoot the clay was launched going parallel along a tree line had to be out there 50+ yards and I asked him what the lead would be and he said 14 feet. Since you posted about 14 foot lead on ducks I wanted to know what does 14 feet equate to from the barrel to the clay or duck? Years ago when I used to skeet shoot I knew a fellow that was a Class A skeet shooter and I asked him what the lead was at No. 4 Station and he said 4 feet. I could break it but not all the time and I never remember leading it 4 feet, maybe a foot and a half from the muzzle.
I finally did break that clay at 50+ yards but it was not a bus length lead, and it was with a 3/4 oz. of # 7 1/2"s and held over a little. Like I said I don't shoot a lot and haven't shot in 4 years due to both knees replaced and now arthritis but getting back into it.

Good for you! Keep after it, things will improve.

Ducks over open water have pretty consistent flying speeds as they skirt the decoys.
You can take a shot at one sight picture, and hammer them on the second just by adding more lead.
If I were ever to post my videos, you would here me telling gunners “2more feet, or 5 more feet…” after their first shot splashes behind the duck.

People shoot shotguns like rifles and miss miles behind.

I thought we were talking about field guns. A 9+ lb gun soaks up a lot of recoil. I only use the 3/4oz load for woodcock. Pheasants get 1 to 11/4 oz. For clays more choke helps for longer shots. Around here sporting courses are short, skeet in the woods. Just to satisfy your curiosity try some 3/4 oz loads when you aren't with your friends or try to get them to give you a couple bird handicap. Use a tight chokes and see what happens. You may be surprised if you don't talk yourself into missing because you don't trust the load.

I am not sure but I may have started this 3/4 oz in 12 ga load business. For years I shot 7/8 oz in a light Britt 12 and clays and most birds. I would up it to 1 oz for pheasant. Just prior to covid I was shooting and at the time the closest place didn't have a delay on the thrower and I was often shooting alone. Well I developed bad mounting through rushing my shot and ended up with a flinch. Since I was already shooting 3/4 oz in a 20 ga and breaking most of the birds when I did it properly , I figured I could go to that load in a12 . I am trying to go easy on a 1905 Scottish RA that is about 6 lbs 7 oz. Most of the clays I shoot are recreational and inside 40 yards.

At the West London Shooting School (WLSS) 12 ga, 3/4 oz is all they use for practice.
That includes practicing tall driven birds off the towers.
It is a useful training aid.

Practice and training is one thing. Real life usage is quite another. GIs used to practice with Springfield 03s that were chambered for the .22 LR. Does that make them sufficient for real use in battle? You can come up with better than that, CZ.

My initial post said nothing about field guns, Mark. Loads and gauges only.

Not everyone shots competition, so no need for "standard" load sizes.
I quit 3 yrs ago with 80k registered sc targets. Now shoot for my enjoyment only. Love the 3/4 loads in my 20ga ou. Challenge my other "duffer" friends with their 12 bores & larger loads.
If you need to shoot larger loads have at it, I understand. Just let me enjoy my 3/4 fun loads.