doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Gauges and payloads

(1) How far do you think a 3/4 oz. load will break targets on edge with 100% reliability? I need a load that will do that at 50-60 yards with certainty. If I decide to limit myself to closer ranges I use a lesser gauge with a lesser payload, willingly. But, I shoot sporting clays on some tough courses. I am certain 1 1/8 oz. load of 7 1/2s at 1175 fps will do that at 50-60 yards. I use .410s a good deal for doves. I know with 100% certainty how far a .410 will reliably kill a dove. It is a 35 yard gun, maximum.

(2) I understand 100% about the "feedback" (recoil) issue. It is very disconcerting for a load to have too little recoil in my 12 ga. guns.

That's not simple, for me, Steve. Regardless how many shotguns you own, why would you want to shoot 3/4 oz. loads in a 12, when statistics prove that a 1 oz. load would kill targets or birds more reliably at "distance"? When I shoot clays I want smoke, not a chip. Do you limit yourself to a certain distance for both, and if so, what is that distance?

Still trying to understand my friend, not argue.

Stan, you know folks hunt birds with .410s and 28s, so why NOT hunt them with light loads in a 12 gauge?

If you need more or just want more, then have at it. But why worry so much about what others shoot? You wouldn't think twice about someone hunting grouse or even pheasants with a 20 gauge, probably using 7/8 oz loads.

Not everyone is a sky blaster.

Back about 11 or 12 years ago when I started shooting Sporting Clays and Skeet, I used standard factory 12 gauge target loads - 1 1/8 ounce.

I got a super good deal on a 12 gauge MEC Sizemaster and started loading my own. I downsized to 1 ounce and then 7/8 ounce and then 3/4 ounce. I then went one step further and started loading and shooting 1/2 ounce 12 gauge loads. I had them tested by Tom Armbrust 9 years ago this month. Pressure around 6,000 psi and the speed is about 1350 fps. Been shooting 1/2 ounce 12 gauge loads ever since at the rate of about 4,000 per year.

For Skeet and the Sporting Clays course at my club, there isn't a target thrown that can't be broken if you hit it. Correct, it doesn't smoke 'em but they do break if you hit them.

The old gents that I shoot with don't keep score and no big deal if you miss. More of a social event than a shooting event. I don't hunt anymore.

And I don't mind getting twice as many loads out of a bag of shot. I do shoot 20 gauge too and hand load 1/2 ounce in that gauge also.

One of our club's top notch trap shooters usually goes 25 straight in trap. I had him shoot a round with my 1/2 ounce loads. He broke 24 and didn't know if that missed bird was the ammo or him. He was delighted with the lack of recoil. Me too!

Distance is not an issue for me when I hunt Blue Grouse, less than an ounce of shot is plenty for those fragile birds. I can never recall needing or wanting more payload when after grouse, the limiting factor is usually the foliage and terran, not distance. Blues are small as well, if you want to eat them you can't put too much shot into them.

I shoot clays very informally and for fun not scores, how far out I can break one is more a factor of choke, not that much in my Holland, light mod in the left barrel. If I was serious about breaking clays and scores I would not be shooting an open choked SxS in the game, it is what I have so it is what I use.

Interesting, Bill. My club has two sporting ranges, the red and the blue courses. The blue is what most accomplished sporting shooters would consider soft. The red is much more challenging, with some long stuff on edge. I enjoy it so much more. Unlike y'all we do keep score, and are trying hard to beat each other. There are three of us that can carry the day, on any particular day, and the competition is tough. We enjoy that, ribbing each other about misses and trying to interrupt the shooter's concentration by joking at critical moments, and planting negative thoughts. There is no way that a 100 straight could be shot on that course with a 3/4 oz. load, IMO. It's doubtful that a 90 could be.

I shoot a 9 lb. Perazzi and want to utilize it to it's fullest potential. For me, that's with 1 oz. and 1 1/8 oz. loads at about 1150-1175 fps. No recoil to speak of in that gun. When I shoot my vintage doubles I drop to the lower end of the "chart", per gauge, that I posted in my initial post.

Thanks for the comments. I'm trying hard to understand, it's just way out of my paradigm.

I hurt my right shoulder years ago, the doctor looked at it and said it was a bad muscle strain, told me of some exercises to do but now arthritis is setting in and still have problems with it. I had read about a gentleman on here I believe who was using 3/4 oz. loads and he loved it. I forgot the reason he switched but I decided to try some. I don't shoot half as much as most of you here but I am more than satisfied with the results. If I am not mistaken this same gentleman patterned these loads and found they were doing just as good as a 1 oz. load. He had a theory that the 3/4 oz. load stayed tighter than the 1 oz. load using the same gun at the same distance. I think he did 1 1/ 8 oz. also and stated the same thing, he said there were less "flyers" in the 3/4 oz.load because of less pellet interference. I can't substantiate that but as the saying goes "if I do my job right it does it's."

Well, Stan, since this started out as a 12ga thread I hesitated to chime in because I’m a 16ga guy. But now that it’s spread out, I can give you my reasoning for shooting 3/4 oz loads exclusively. For decades I was a 1 oz fellow - period. But some time pre-COVID reloading components started getting hard to come by and concurrently my cervical spine began to protest even modest 1oz loads. I couldn’t shoot 50 rounds without beginning to experience numbness in my trigger hand. I briefly transitioned through 7/8 oz loads but settled on low pressure, low speed 3/4 oz loads (6200 & 1150) and haven’t looked back. As others have said, when I’m “on”, the targets break or the birds fall. I have not done the math but the average age of the SxS’s in my safe is definitely over 100 years old so starting the lighter loads to slower speeds keeps the gun and the gunner happy longer. I used to be a 1000 round/year shooter but that hasn’t happened since COVID began and probably won’t ever again as powder availability now is the issue with wads not far behind (DR 16’s). I am adjusting and working on alternate loads but climbing costs continue to work against me. Quality of shooting these wonderful old doubles hasn’t gone down but quantity sure has.

FCF, Down Range keeps folks on the hook about the DR16 re-start. The 16 ga. forum has many Doubting Thomases. Gil

I hope this answers your question: I had to use tighter chokes in my DT10 to get solid breaks at the longer distances to which you are referring since pellet count is, obviously, much lower in a 3/4 oz load. Now, I rarely see on edge 60 yard crossers at the ranges I shoot, and whether you can hit those type targets reliably is up to you to determine for yourself. When I got a 28 gauge OU a few years ago, my scores on local ranges varied little from my 12 gauge scores. And you know yourself a 28 will break targets a long ways away. So, if you use a tight choke in your 12 and do your part a 3/4 oz load in your target gun should break those long targets. Have fun. Ed