doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com I have posted this to warn others about this fraud

Hello All

I have posted this to warn others about this fraudulent seller on Gun Broker.

here is the original listing ... https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1034173843

A thoughtful wife bought this rifle for her husband as a Valentine's Day gift. But, she didn't know that you can't trust a seller on Gunbroker with an A+(585) rating. She didn't know to check the feedback to see that the seller had over 34 Negatives. (4 Negatives in the last 3 weeks) She didn't now that when the seller says MAGNUM in 3 places in the listing that he may be lying.

Even though many of us know guns, and that we know that Mauser did make Model A Magnum action rifles, we can't see in pictures the 5/15" difference in length between a Standard length action, and a Magnum length action. We look to the description.

After the sale, I had a chance to review the rifle in hand ... Here is what I found along with observations that were confirmed from Axel E., a World Renowned Expert on Mauser rifles.

This is a real type A Mauser Commercial rifle, built 1930 – 31 for retail by Manton, Calcutta. But, it is NOT a rare Oberndorf “Magnum” action rifle. It is a 10.75x68 rifle on a common standard length action.

In addition, the rifle was severely altered, which was not disclosed by the seller. Alterations that have totally destroyed its collector value. These include:

The rear receiver bridge was ground down, removing the clip guide ears, the front and rear receiver were drilled and tapped for a scope mount base. The bolt handle is a new low profile handle that was welded on in place of the original, and the stock was altered to accept that new handle, and a low profile Buehler safety was installed to clear a scope.

These mutilations have totally destroyed collector value, even though it was a rare model A Mauser in 10.75x68 caliber. Original Mauser, Oberndorf Commercial rifles in 10.75x68 caliber are rare since most of them are of the B type. Only about 15% of the small number of these rifles are type A. But with the alterations, and its not being a rare Magnum, the value is only about HALF of what the lady paid.

As I said, the lady buyer didn't know about rifles, and she bought it as a gift for her husband, and went by the description. Only later was it found NOT to be a Magnum. We can't fault her for believing the seller, and trying to surprise her husband with a special gift.

The husband has now filed a complaint with the Credit Card Co. and received a temporary charge-back, but it will be months before all the back-and-forth arguments are settled, because the seller has stated that the listing says that he doesn't accept returns, and the buyer should have relied on the pictures.

The husband hasn't pushed the issue and told her that she was defrauded, because after all it was a Valentine's Day Present and she meant well. But unfortunately she got taken by a crooked dealer. Lets just hope it all gets settled, and the rifle gets sent back to the dealer, so he can try to stick it to someone else.

Beware this seller - page through and read all his Negatives.

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It seems the seller is going steeply downhill. His recent ratings are much worse than his overall average would suggest.

Not accepting returns is a red flag to me.

Sorry to see you and yours got caught up in that one. It is an attractive looking rifle, and it certainly sold for a pretty large chunk of change.

I wish you luck in winning your case.

I too was surprised at the ratings. His older ratings, though the listings are not available, are really pretty good. One thing that waved a red flag to me was that he has been GB for about 5 years and has 500 odd listings which is one every 3 days or so. I checked the last 4 or 5 months and counted around 1 every 2 days or so, except for January, where he had 1 sale. The latter part of this period was when he experienced an incredible number of bad listings. This coupled with fact that he has 3 active listings seems to indicate some upheavel ocurred. All of his sales still posted indicates he is selling the bulk of his merchandise in the mid to upper four figure range. That coupled with a no return policy puts him in a never-bid category from my position.

I noticed too that the buyer has been on GB for years, yet years separate each of his 7 listed transactions. Seems like a buyer that shouldn't be bidding on sight unseen auctions like this.

You say he is fighting with the CC company. Shouldn't he be talking to GB instead. The great emphasis on the Magnum action should be enough to void the sale from their end.

Gun Broker buyer protection only pays up to $400... they are no help.

That guy must have wrote ad copy for Herters in a previous life.

John

WELL ... LOOKS LIKE THEIR ACCOUNT WAS SUSPENDED BY GUNBROKER .... ITS ABOUT TIME !

UPDATE .... THE SUSPENSION WAS SHORT LIVED .... 4 HOURS LATER HE'S BACK IN BUSINESS ... GUN BROKER PUT HIM BACK IN BUSINESS .... THEY MUST HAVE LIKED THE FEES THEY WERE COLLECTING .... ? ? ?

Not really .... this was an outright FRAUD. And ... I'm considering changing my signature because I'm 72 and this was more true when I was in my 30s .... not so much now because I don't have a lot of "early" left.

Go look at one of the bidders. I think one was a shill bidder, in place to drive up the total sale price. One thing I do not like about GunBroker is the never ending extension they impose, to keep the auction going, as the price soars after what was the original end of auction time. I have seen too many auctions where the price gets driven up over and over again by bidders with few feed backs over literally years or decades of use. If I am interested in a item I just bid my top amount and let it go. Not willing to bid hundreds extra just because someone else does. If you have the time, you can trace a shill bidder because they will show up on other sales from the same seller. You will notice they will bid several time, at the end, but always seem to come up just short of the final winning bid. One shill bidder I discovered bid almost fifty times, in a month period, with zero wins and always for the same seller. When I brought this to GunBrokers attention they were not aware or concerned about it. That fake bidder was still playing his games a few month later on another item for the same seller. So GunBroker just does not care and did nothing.

I hope this works out well for the buyer. I expect they will find that GunBroker will be their usual absolutely worthless in resolving this issue. I have been forced to use credit card companies, Postal Inspectors, LEO and even had help from the BATF once. And PayPal is worse than GunBroker in my experience which is why I no longer use them for anything more than sending grand kids a few dollars for birthdays. And I do not think a "disclaimer" will absolve the seller from fraud ,which is what this type of deception is.

Yes, I see that gunbroker keeps their account active because of the thousands of dollars they make in commissions, even from a fraudulent seller with over 40 negatives ... eight of which are for being a "non-paying bidder."

I don't want to seem like a jerk here, but maybe you're going a bit far. Now, if I had seen that listing, I would have had some skepticism from the Herter inspired description and fanfare. But to call this a fraud is a bit of a stretch. The guy posted a hundred pictures, nothing was hidden, the bolt handle, safety, scope holes and ground bridge were all visible. As for the action, the thumb slot, would have been my first clue to dig a little deeper.

How many dealers are familiar with magnum Mausers? This guy may have never seen one before. If he sold you a rifle advertised as a converted military action, and it was built on an Oberndorf kurz action, would you be yelling fraud? The world is full of misidentified guns, it isn't always intentional. If you're spending this kind of money, with this kind of dealer, with no homework, you're not giving yourself a lot of wiggle room.