doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com A few Questions about my Francotte

I picked this up today and I thought I would share it and maybe you can help me with a few questions I have. It is a 12 gauge extractor gun and I was told it was a model 18. 2 3/4 chambers. Both barrels say '18.4 choke 18.3', so if I'm reading it correctly, it only has .1 mm of choke which is something between skeet and cylinder. I'm fairly new to this stuff but isn't it a bit odd that both barrels are the same? Serial number is 28032 which according to the serial number list would put it at 1897 or post 1989, neither of which seems right. Can anyone tell me what year it was made?

Besides a few buggered screws and some normal age it is in fantastic shape; the barrels have almost perfect bluing. It amazes me the amount of gun and the quality of workmanship you can get with old an SxS without spending a lot of money.

https://www.shotguns.se/html/belgium.html

Is that a cursive "P" in the barrel proof marks, that would be 1937

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...=+proof+marks&Search=true#Post633166

I believe the date code is 'e' for 1926
The chambers are 2 3/4"
After 1924, the 18.3 and 18.4 are the bore in mm and CHOKE only indicates muzzle constriction > .008" so the choke will need to be measured
The barrel tubes are quality Siemens-Martin fabricated by Delcour Dupont (the crowned D)

Cornell Pubs has a 1925-26 Von Lengerke & Detmold catalog repro which should confirm the model
https://cornellpubs.com/product/997/
The post-1910 models are listed here
https://www.shotgunworld.com/threads/abercrombie-fitch-von-lengerke-detmold-and-francotte.393236/

That sure is in nice shape. Looks like you found a nice gun, Chawk. Good luck.

Chawk,

I'm sorry to be so late in replying but I'll tell you what I can about your gun. Francotte 28032 appears in the first book of inventory and sales (marked Volume 1) at Von Lengerke & Detmold in New York City. This book was begun in 1900. The store opened for business in 1889 but, to my knowledge, there are no earlier VL&D records in existence. It appears that the current inventory in the store was entered in Vol.1 at that time although no dates of acquisition were recorded. The earliest date associated with your gun is June 25, 1900 when it was sent to Stark & Mickesse (?) for a possible sale. That being said your serial number of 1897 could be correct. Your gun remained in inventory at VL&D from then until 1907 when it was sold to a buyer whose name was recorded as "R.M. Bull" on March 26, 1907. During the time that it was in the VL&D inventory it was sent to at least two other firearms dealers for possible sale at those locations. VL&D was a retail firearms dealer but they also imported firearms from manufacturers in Europe and n sold some to other retail outlets.

The earliest VL&D records contain only minimal information about each firearm. Francotte 28032 is recorded as a Grade No.2 model in 12 gauge, weighing 7 lbs., 6 ounces, with 30 inch barrels and a drop @ heel of 2 and 3/8 inches. The model name No.2 was assigned by VL&D and was not a Francotte model name.

As for the Model No.2, a VL&D catalog describes the gun is as follows:

The Model No.2 is a Hammerless side by side shotgun with an Anson & Deeley style boxlock action, in 12 gauge with Damascus or Siemen-Martin steel barrels, a Quadruple-fast action (double under-bolt, Greener cross-bolt and dolls head extension rib), Purdey style fore-end, checkered sidelock shaped side panels, automatic top safety, Intercepting sears, weighing about 6 ½ pounds with 28 inch barrels and 7 to 8 pounds with 30 inch barrels, all grips with 2 ¼ to 3 inch drops, somewhat finer finish than the grade No. 1. The retail price of the No.2 was $100.00 (1900).

In 1900 a price of $100 would have been quite a bit of money for most folks so it is easy to understand why it took at least 7 years to find a home. Of the 46 model No. 2 guns on the page only about 6 were sold to private buyers by VL&D during 1900.

Your gun appears to be in fine cosmetic condition and I wish you years of enjoyment owning and using it.

Bob Beach (retired)

(Information courtesy of Griffin & Howe, Inc)

Really a lovely gun, congratulations.

Great info.

Good to see you posting, Bob. I hope you're doing well.

Gregg

Bob,

Glad to see you posting. Do you know if Griffin & Howe still offers the service you used to provide on the Francottes? I own a couple of Francottes and was curious about a recent purchase (#32197, VL&D gun). I'm happy to pay for the service, but I wasn't sure if anyone was available to do it. Any scoop?

Ken

Bob.
Add me to the folks who are happy to see that you are still replying to posts. Stay well!
Austin

Hi Bob, thank you very much for the information. My barrels are 26 inches and it weighs 6 Lbs 14 Oz. The barrels dont have any importers, they just say 'Brevete-Liege' on the left barrel and 'Auguste Francotte' on the right barrel. Most of these I have seen have VL&D on the barrels, is this one just too early for that?

The barrel flats have a * over G proof mark, I thought that was the mark for the Controller of Proof Codes for 1928-1959, but of course I could be wrong. I love looking at the details of this gun and the fact that it is 120+ years old makes the condition even more astonishing.

Thanks again Bob!