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Forums10
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,166 Likes: 1155
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,166 Likes: 1155 |
Jimmy, I do not do that with a .410 every time. I do not shoot much Skeet or Trap anymore. But when I am in a groove I am able to. I'd bet 41-42 out of 50 for money. People get hung up on the .410 and just fail to understand that the center of my .410 pattern hits bird well and is that same as the center of a 12, just slightly less dense there is no edges beyond it. The center of a 12 gauge pattern is overkill. I have a 20-22" pattern when I shoot trap at 16 yards, the way I shoot. Your 30" pattern is not even 30" if you shoot quickly but can still kill birds long after I can, at ranges a .410 runs out of pattern. I shoot fast and when in the groove as we use to say can break birds. What I can not do is ride birds out or shoot deliberately with a .410. It runs out of gas past 30-33 yards. My sweet spot is about 25-27 yards, and on straight away birds that is no problem. But angle birds are a real issue, so I am very aggressive with them. Most angled birds are like Skeet low six or high two type angles if you shoot faster. At Skeet I shoot low five and low six before it is half way to the center stake. A hit at 25-30 yards, on angled bird is more likely with a .410 than one at 30-35 yards. Past that it is a hail mary. Put another way I struggle with angled birds past 25-27 yards and past 30 yards any hits are miracles as much as skill.
If you shot a .410 a lot you would see some of what I am saying. I suspect Stan does. Can you get within 20" of the bird? If so you can break birds with a .410. You can do it with 30" pattern with a 12, and if you shoot 7/8 or 3/4 ounce your pattern is nearer 25" than 30". So your 25" 3/4 ounce load will break birds at 16 yards. I am just a step or two lower at 1/2 ounce and 20".
What you can not do with a .410 is think too much. Never cut open a shell and see how few pellets are in 1/2 ounce load. Never pattern a .410 and count pellets. If you must pattern one, then see where the POI is and see how nicely is covers the target, or how wide the pattern is. I look for a pattern which has no "holes" in it for a target to fly through edge ways. A good one will cover about 22" at the ranges I want to shoot. A bad one gets spotty and is really just a 16-18" pattern, best only used closer. And much as I have tried I have never found a 40 yard .410 load but I might if I could afford Tungsten shot. Some guys kill geese at stupid ranges with that stuff. Very well said.
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,720 Likes: 121
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,720 Likes: 121 |
That's good shootin'!! Good luck!!
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 388 Likes: 11
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 388 Likes: 11 |
We used handicaps for our shoots in Florida to encourage the use of smaller gauges at our Sporting Clays outings. No large purses at these small shoots. Gave our participants the option what to shoot w/o embarassment.
PULL!
Hal M. Hare
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1 member likes this:
Stanton Hillis |
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,720 Likes: 121
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,720 Likes: 121 |
I can understand if you have a tournament or a special event and you set up handicaps. That's great. And fun. But if I go out and shoot with my buddies and I tell them I get 40 extra birds because I didnt bring my 12 gauge, they're going to ask where I heard that. Or if I get into a shoot against guys who have spent $10,000 on Seitz or Perazzi and I walk in with a model 42 with only 1/2 ounce of shot and want a handicap to win some of that prize money, I better have a smile on my face because they'll know im joking. And in all my days of seeing trap tournaments, I have never seen anyone shoot a .410. I believe I saw one guy shoot a 20 gauge one time in a trap tournament. He did not do very well. Everyone's opinion will be different on a handcap scale, so for a fun shoot, that's great. I was just going by what the first two posts said. But whatever suits you is fine with me.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,731 Likes: 490
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,731 Likes: 490 |
Jimmy, I always wished the ATA had a separate 28 gauge event for 16 yard birds. Most shooters could shoot a 28 at 16 yards, perhaps not run hundreds but shoot scores in the low 90’s. No recoil, less shot and think of the Lewis possibilities. Plus such an increase in small bore shell sales volume would bring the cost of shooting the 28 down to the same as a 20. When I was a kid the 28 and .410 did not have such a premium price attached to them.
I understand your point that nobody takes such a handicap as shooting a .410 in a 12 event. I don’t shoot registered. And when all you are doing is challenging yourself it does not matter. Most outings I don’t even bother keeping score unless others want to. If I find an interesting bird I’ll spend extra shells on it instead of killing those too easy, gimme birds clubs use to pad average scores so shooters ride away with a positive experience. Kind of like shooting only straight aways at trap or low sevens at Skeet. A straight, incomer, which land near your feet in Sporting Clays is a wasted target to me. When you can hit ten out of ten you gain nothing beyond a good feeling. Have that same bird land 20 yards away, in semi open trees and you learn how to pick small windows to break them before they get out of sight or start falling like a teal. Read the targets flight, pick your window to shoot in and adjust it until you get it right. But some only want to shoot high scores at gimme birds. If you want to hear bitching change the trap machine setups so you get wider angle birds. Guys like what they can do well.
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 268 Likes: 89
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 268 Likes: 89 |
...I always wished the ATA had a separate 28 gauge event for 16 yard birds... I've shot a bit of 16-yard Trap with my 28-gauge side-by-sides the past two years, and it's been a hoot. By trial and error, I found the key to dusting them to be exactly what you said in an earlier reply: Hit 'em fast. Right out of the trap house, near as like, while the little orange boggerts are still pocketing their keys.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,720 Likes: 121
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,720 Likes: 121 |
I was going to tell this story earlier- I used to practice shooting trap with Jimmy Walker. A fantastic trapshooter. I was just beginning to learn about the sport and had only been shooting for a couple months. Someone told me that you could save money by reloading with 1 oz of lead. So the first time I shot with Jimmy Walker, I was out shooting practice singles by myself. He came out and asked me if I wanted to shoot, so I said sure. He asked me where I wanted to shoot from. I told him it was up to him. He said, let's shoot from the 27 yard line. I said great, but I'm only shooting 1 oz loads so I probably won't do very well. He told me then that if you use 1 oz loads that you are beat before you even start. He asked me what we were going to shoot for and I said it was up to him. He said how about a beer- okay. He started lead off and powdered every one of them. I was pecking away and probably broke 10 or 11, if that many. He got down to the last stand on the last shot from the 27 yard line- shot from the hip and crushed it. He looked over at me, laughed and said, "How'd ya like that one?" I always remembered the things he taught me. I never fooled with 1 oz. loads again unless it was for skeet maybe. Fun shoots are great, but I like to have every advantage I can get. If you get hundreds of dollars on the line and good shooters are coming from all over the country, you can get pretty intimidated. But it is fun to have fun shoots at sporting clays and skeet. Although, I take trap a little more seriously for some reason. And no one ever gave me a handicap at anything, even though I really could have used one. 😄
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