doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com top lever position

there seems to be the belief of some here that if the top lever of a gun sits anywhere except right of center that the bolt system is worn and needs repair...

that is simply not true...

there are basically two types of common bolting system...top bolting and bottom bolting...

most guns utilize one or the other, sometimes both...

just because a top lever appears other than right of center does not necessarily mean the bolting system is worn and in need of repair...

much depends on the design of the actual bolting system utilized...

have noticed, that better quality european guns have top levers that usually sit at dead center, even when brand new...

then there are rotary top bolting systems of the types used by fox, smith an ithaca nid...when new, the top lever of these guns usually sit right of center...

the best way to judge the condition of the bolting system of a gun is to put up and down pressure on the forend and stock grip...if there is movement, then the bolt is worn and needs tightening...and its time to bring gun to your trusted smith for evaluation...

it is as simple as that...

Much more depends on the skill of the people who fitted the bolting in either design. You got a new gun with the lever left of center?

Pedro might have been in the sauce that day, ed.

Just sayin’.

Best,
Ted

well ted, apparently, the gun you are referring to is a like new grulla, with the top lever slightly left of center...

the gun locks up tight, as a new gun should...

the position of the top lever left, right or dead center is of no consequence...

this is a bottom bolting gun of the holland & holland design...

should this fine gun ever loosen up to the point of needing tightening, then tighting of the bite of the bottom bolt is a relatively easy fix for an experienced smith to accomplish...

otherwise, if it aint broke, dont fix it...

I bought an old Parker years ago for $300.00 that had the barrels cut back to 20". I figured it would make a nice home protection gun. The top lever was a good 1/4" left of center and the barrels were unbelievably paper thin. My buddy brought his Stoeger coach gun to the club one day and I used that Parker for a few rounds of skeet. It shot just fine. Left of center top levers never bothered me that much as long as they lock up tight. After I put a leather covered KICKEEZ pad on it, some guy bought it for $600.00. The only Parker I ever owned and probably ever will.

parkers are bottom bolters and as such are usually easy to keep tight...and with the king improvement, they can be tighten many more times than without it...

I have to agree with what Ed says in his first post up top. I have seen and owned a few doubles with top levers that sat slightly left of center with absolutely no movement and tight as a hat band. I have a LeFevre that way and it was as tight as any new gun I own. Now for those guns with the top lever almost lapping over onto the line between the top tang and the stock, well, that is indeed another story. But for this gun in question posted by Ed, my opinion is the same as his. I would not hesitate to purchase it if I was in the market for one of that type just because of the present position of the top lever. Tight is tight, regardless of position of the top lever, other than the extreme exception I noted above. Now before a "knowledge war" starts, this is MY opinion. Take it or leave it.

I have bought a good number of new doubleguns in my life, none of them Spanish, however. But, with that said, I've never seen a new doublegun with a top lever that wasn't right of center. It would greatly concern me if I were to be considering the purchase of a new doublegun that had a top lever in the center position.

It just shows wear and it's a purdey bolt ,the locks are HH style

Or, Pedro was in the sauce, and needed to keep filing to get it tight.


Best,
Ted

I tend to agree with one caveat. While a gun with the top lever slightly left of center may bolt up tight and on the face, conventional "wisdom" or prejudice dictates that such a gun may have less value, simply because the majority of buyers may consider it defective. That said, there are some rotary bolted Fox and L.C. Smith guns that will cam the top lever open upon firing because the rotary bolt isn't fitted properly... even though the top lever may be centered or right of center. This has been discussed here in the past, and is mentioned in Dewey Vicknair's blog post, "A Dispassionate Look at the Design of American Doubles."

Then there are the older pivot lever Lefever shotguns, usually found in the 10,000 to 14,000 serial number range. The top lever on those always goes to center, and they have a compensating screw to take up wear in the bolting. Even those I own that have seen a lot of use still bolt up tightly, so I have never turned the bolt compensating screws. I have seen some with buggered compensating screws, probably because some fools cannot stand the sight of an unmolested screw slot.