doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Those SLEEVED guns again

WR did a lot of early sleeve jobs. As you say not to the highest standard. I think a lot of the negative feelings about sleeve jobs are from those roughly done jobs. Later WR sleeve jobs could be done as well as anybody. I assume the early ones were in house because nobody would let them be associated with a name makers reputation by an outsider. Most likely they did them cheap just to keep the doors open. If it has a stamped Sleeve on the side it is an early job. Early jobs had rough seams while later ones could be done so finely you have to look hard to see any seam at all. Some are really seamless. Sleeving saves a lot of guns from the scrap pile.

W.J. Jeffrey was an excellent salesman, invented or developed excellent rifle cartridges had several patents to his name.

BUT he bought in all his guns from the Trade.

It was not until Paul Roberts had the licence to build W. J. Jeffery guns that Jeffery double rifles were being built “in house”.

Jon,

As the Proof House were then insisting on stamping SLEEVED on the outside of the breech end of the barrels Westley Richards made a virtue out of a necessity by emblazoning Westley Richards above the Proof House stamp.

I am sure I saw a Westley Richards advert in Shooting Times in the 1960’s stating they were doing this to show they stood by the Quality of their work. They are one of the few who sleeved who clearly identified their work.

Fortunately my Green is one of their better efforts with a neat enough join.

I have seen guns sleeved by others where the solder band (or even worse the gap) is so wide that it looks as if the sleever meant to inlay a gold band but plain forgot 🤩

I agree the loss of a beautiful pair of Damascus barrel is sad, but a necessary evil in some cases.

As for where you were born, I love Brit guns, Brit stuff, Brit history, and am an Anglophile for sure, but I am glad I was born in the USA, and glad for you as well. I would not have anything different in terms of being American, just the laws on import / export of vintage side by sides.

My late 1880’s Perkes was sleeved in 1962 and it is an amazing gun to shoot and hunt pheasants with.

The steel type chosen for the sleeve tubes can offset barrel weight issues. As the CIP barrel thickness guides show, high quality steel can yield much lighter barrels than low quality. I would even say that modern high quality steels can yield barrels that are lighter than marginal overhoned damascus.

When you have a 100 year old gun with barrels that have been bored way past their best , the outsides struck off to remove pitting ect. How can you tell what it was like when it left the factory . Thats unless you have makers records that will give a barrel weight ,in its self a rarity ? Having been involved in sleeving for many years , I have sleeved 30" t0 26" , and vice versa . 16 to 20 bore . 10 to 12 bore . I have changed ribs and replaced ribs and only once have I had complaints about the change in handling .
By the same token I have through handling thousands of guns picked up original guns that seemed to want to leap on to your shoulder with others being as " lively as a plank of wood ( no offence to planks of wood intended ) .

My Frank Lefever and Sons sleeved 3 1/2" ten gauge Parker handles like a plank of wood. It probably handled about the same when it was a 10 pound, #3 frame 12 gauge.

To me it is the contrast of young verse old in our females and guns. We want our females to always look and feel like they did at 20, but our guns to look and feel like they do after a hundred years of wear, tear, repairs and just being so worn out that they are junk. Little real thought about how they felt when new, as gunman says. And several ounces removed from the barrels can make a big difference. The gun gets lighter in the barrels and more butt stock heavy. Then sleeve the gun to original weight and we think it is now barrel heavy when all it is is restored to original conditions. But we only know what the end was like because we never knew the gun as it was in its youth.

Over the years, I had several guns sleeved at gunman's shop. All turned out beautifully, especially after the time when they welded the seams. One could never tell that the barrels had been sleeved without looking at the proofmarkings. The "bluing" was top notch. Often I ordered shorter sleeve barrels than the original gun had. Say 29" or 30" to 28". This was because, just a guess, that the sleeves might have been thicker walled than the original. I was never disappointed. In one case a Lajot 12 ga had such a tiny receiver that we had to go to a 16 ga. sleeve to expect the gun to pass proof. Beautiful job.