doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com A Francotte - year & model

I just purchased a Francotte double in 20 gauge, imported by Von Lengerke & Detmold. I believe it is a Jubilee Model No.20. The serial #61523. It has an engraved case colored receiver with Damascus barrels. The Blue Book of Gun Values states the Jubilee models were manufactured after 1920. That seems late for Damascus barrels.

I would have posted pictures, but I can’t figure out how to do that.

Can anyone help with the year of manufacture? Would Francotte have Damascus barrels in 1920?

I appreciate any help on this. If someone can tell me how to post pictures, I will do that.

Thanks, Dick

WELCOME on your first posting

For photo posting use
www.jpgbox.com

Proof marks start here

https://www.shotguns.se/html/belgium.html

What is the history of the Francotte shotgun?
History. The company was founded in 1805 by August Francotte in Liège, based at Rue de Mont-Saint-Martin 61. The company was especially active from 1860 to 1914 before manufacturing ceased due to the German invasion of Belgium. The company resumed production after World War I.

https://doublegunshop.com/dgsnos2.htm

Bob Beach was the Archivist for Griffin & Howe, was an invaluable Francotte resource, but unfortunately for the vintage double community has retired
https://www.shotgunworld.com/threads/abercrombie-fitch-von-lengerke-detmold-and-francotte.393236/

He discussed the Jubilee guns, which were not cataloged until 1941, here
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=361368

There are several guns listed as Jubilee models right now on Guns International, at least 2 of which do not include the SN or pic of the barrel flats
https://www.gunsinternational.com/s...rancotte&start_row=1&the_order=6
A boxlock
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...2-gauge-s7950-quot-.cfm?gun_id=102347781

Per the link that Mike provided, your SN fits the "Medium Grade" models for 1905 or 1906.
The No. 20 was introduced in 1910.

I sent you a private message with information about your gun and a 1905 or 1906 date of manufacture. I don't know if you got the message or not. Let me know.

Mr. Pike, The photo below contains two partial page photos with entries for Francotte 61523. The upper photo shows the inventory from 1907 which begins on the previous page. Note that the category of the guns is described at the top as "Special Francotte". and several of the guns are marked as "Sample". By 1907 VL&D offered more than 20 different models of Francotte guns and it appears that there was an effort to reduce that number and rename most of the models that were to remain in the inventory. This was completed in 1910 and the models offered at that time were (least to most expensive) Knockabout model and grades No. 10, 11, 13, 14, 17&1/2, 20,25,30 and 45. By 1921 the models 10, 17&1/2 and 20 were dropped from the line. It is my opinion that the "sample" guns listed here were ordered to evaluate whether they were to be included in the reduced line. The model numbers were determined by dividing the price of the model in 1910 by the number 10. For example the unusually named model 17&1/2 sold for $175. The models 11 and 13 were single barrel trap guns.

Francotte 61523 is the next to the last gun in the upper photo and is described as follows: serial number 61523, "Sample", 20 gauge, 5lbs.4 oz., 28 inch barrels, Damascus, 2 & 5/16 inch drop @ heel. The next entry "sg" could mean straight grip. There is no entry for a sale so the gun was transferred to the 1908 inventory further down the same page. The only new information is that on 12/22/08 the gun was sold to "George J. Gould". Mr. Gould was the son of one of the original "robber barons" of the 19th century, Jay Gould. Like his father George J. was a railroad tycoon.

There is a penciled entry between the word "Damascus" and the date of sale, It reads: C as a superscript then ehnzf and it is a coded entry of the Cost of your gun to VL&D. The code uses the names of the numerals from 1 to 9 plus zero in German. This would have been Eine, zeHn, Neun, Zwei, Funf or numerically 10925 or 109.25 but is it dollars or Deutsch marks?

If you have any questions just post them here.

Bob Beach

Bob, sent you two private messages, your friend, Bill Murphy