doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com visual interest versus name recognition & cost

Hanging out in Whittington inevitably leads me into coveting some things (of course!) so... I find myself looking at English hammer guns yet again, but this time I'm beginning to discern a pattern in my analysis. Normally it is a very straight-forward process, cost-versus-benefit going first with perceived-use patterns followed closely after that first cut, but... not this time. Since hammer guns are more "art" to me than just useful tools, I'm finding another variable in the mix and I'm going to call that rather newly-discovered variable "Visual Interest". In some ways for me, it now outweighs the normally more-practical approach.

Most guns are merely tools, with no time and even less-effort being expended in the finished product. Accordingly, these "tools" are usually quite crude (there are probably better examples, but think of a cheap 1920s pocket pistol or an inexpensive military-surplus rifle from say... sometime before WWII). If they're dependable and functional you can still appreciate them (& even desperately need them on some occasions). If they belonged to some beloved person in your life (past or present) they can be treasured and even revered, but they are still, really... only "tools". "Fine" guns on the other hand, are usually differentiated from the rest of the pack by the amount of time and human-effort invested in their appearance (more highly-figured & finely shaped wood [not plastic!], more-adroitly applied and higher-cost finishes [engraving, not Parkerizing!]). Many of the early English hammer guns go well-beyond that mark and accordingly...they are almost in a class by themselves. As a practical matter, most aren't very utilitarian. They are all now...what(?) at least 100-years old, and many (if not most) employ the use of an archaic (and perhaps even demonic) invention, Damascus Steel, in their long and now-ancient barrels (Egads!). They're frankly...very slow to use (loading, cocking and firing take forever by modern standards) and they're also likely to be fragile and not really good for use in challenging weather or other unstable (changing, crowded, or desperate) conditions . And still... with all those very real "handicaps" (for lack of a better descriptor) I'm clearly drawn to them. They are the "Steam Punk" of the gun world (look the definition of that one up) and I think they are endlessly-cool and... even though I need one like a hole in my big (& mostly empty) head, I want another one to use on targets occasionally and perhaps...possibly (only in perfect weather and of-course with well-controlled field conditions) for hunting upland game.

I'm presently focused on back-action guns, though bar-action guns might offer some real advantages here (many more of them have survived, most are somewhat newer [i.e., later production], and many are simply better-made) and I've finally narrowed the field down to just a few alternatives. What I'm finding now is that the perceived-use limitations of some of the lighter, unchoked, and non-rebounding versions are not deterring me because... I like how they "look". Heavier guns (7lbs plus) and the more-normal (more available) bar-action and top-lever guns would make for far-better target guns (which is the more likely and ever more-practical use of such a firearm) but... they're just too-conventional somehow in my eyes. And while some truly-fine and well-known guns (some with very-familiar names in the gun-world) are presently available, I keep circling back to those more-obscure artifacts and it's purely because of that "visual interest" factor for me. It's now down to finding one that will fit me or that can be reasonably-altered to fit (being a southpaw limits my options even further). It's an odd way to buy a gun, I'll freely admit. First world problems, eh?

I think, circle back to your first paragraph and assume it will be an emotion purchase. There's nothing wrong with that, but visual appeal is probably in the eye of the beholder. Lol, maybe it's a good thing you folks now have a three day wait period, but you're fortunate to be stirred by a gun.

Lloyd, I think you defined the difference between a collector and a shooter/hunter. You can play both sides of the street of course, but I know a fair number of people that collect firearms just because they find the mechanisms fascinating and appreciate the engineering, or the craftsmanship, or whatever. Many rarely or never shoot. Just something they like to collect, like I like to pick up odd, not pretty, rocks.

I guess I'd be looking for a back action, island lock gun with rebounding hammers. Maybe a 16b. Or a Grant or Boss side lever, or... And I'd shoot them.

Chukarman: Thanks for that, I certainly do like 16s and I clearly like side-levers but...12s are far-easier to feed than 16s these days, and since sidelevers are fairly-uncommon they accordingly seem to be collecting something resembling a premium these days. No...it will be a 12 and for all the usual reasons, quite possibly a Jones underlever, and it will definitely be shot for targets and moreover...game. I'd also like to find out if non-rebounders actually do cock more easily (i.e. more quickly). Another old-gun learning experience (which is usually fun for me). If I really like it, I can always upgrade to a more-refined and possibly better version later.

Wild fowl hammer guns were being made into the 1930's. I have several. They offer fairly modern dimensions, steel barrels, built to handle 3" shells and proofed at 4 tons, weight 7.5-8.25 pounds which works well on clay targets. They tend to be barrel heavy which work well for me and run 30-32" with IM to Full chokes. If you come across one you will quickly realize that they are the same as a period pigeon guns, at 1/4 the price. Fit is very good but not finished to the same extent. I really enjoy mine and look forwards to taking them duck hunting next Fall. I even picked up a Lang hammer-less gun, central vision, 3" that started out as wild fowl gun. It shoots well and crushes clays. Sadly someone removed all but .010 chokes in it. Comes in at 8 pounds on the dot. Trying to figure out if I want to have it back bored .010 to give it more choke. Not enough wall thickness for briely's.

If it exists it would be nice to come across a ribless (I detest ribs), back action island lock with side pedal opening and steel barrels. Collectible or not I would use it.

Did Alex Martin ever build a hammergun? His other stuff had ribless options.

Well....I bit the bullet, so-to-speak, and finally bought another hammergun. Waiting on Kirby to ship it now and... it's truly steam-punk on steroids, a non-rebounding, side-lever Lang made in the middle 1870s. The photos are still on his webpage (if you're interested). Pedaled a nice M99 .250 Savage to do it. With the way things are going in Colorado (& elsewhere too) I figured that I'd better get the guns I'm curious about in-hand now, and not "later".

Lloyd,
Went over and took a peek.
I like it!!
Congrats.