March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online Now
1 members (trw999), 852 guests, and 5 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,374
Posts544,014
Members14,391
Most Online1,258
Mar 29th, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,063
Likes: 565
Lloyd3 Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,063
Likes: 565
Gentlemen: as guns evolved, stocks seem to have grown longer and to have less drop (at both the comb and the heel) than what you would generally see in many 19th century firearms. One would presume that this has been caused by several things, but mostly by changing demographics (caused by better diets, less destructive lifestyles at work, perhaps different genetics(?) and thus a changing physiology of shooters).

I know very-well now what my measurements are for my game guns: my question is this....how much drop can a person tolerate before it becomes an issue? I have been told by some very-credible people that a gun with little or no drop will be a big issue for me (I'm a 1 1/2 comb and a 2 1/2 heel fellow normally) but...I know I've shot guns with seemingly much-more drop that didn't seem to be so bad.

What does the cognoscenti here say about this one?

Last edited by Lloyd3; 03/30/23 03:36 PM.
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 886
Likes: 352
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 886
Likes: 352
Is it not at least partly a matter of changing shooting styles.

Old time shooters are pictured standing more erect, and with heads up rather than lowered to the stock.

Did they shoot like that to accommodate the way the guns were built then?

Or were the guns built that way to suit the way they shot them?

Last edited by Parabola; 03/30/23 03:59 PM.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 161
Likes: 14
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 161
Likes: 14
I don’t pretend to be an expert on guns or shooting, but your question is interesting. So, I’d like to venture a comment. As to changes in stock dimensions over time I would concur that it does appear that stocks are getting longer and flatter. My guess is it has less to with physiology and more to do with people learning more about shotgun shooting. I will credit the English with starting it all. Of its face it casually looks as if our cousins gained an early grasp of controlling impact and recoil mitigation.

As to how much drop one can tolerate, I’m not qualified to state for everyone. I know what is too much for me. I learned through painful and expensive experience. I’ve had to learn not to buy a gun, no matter how wonderful it might be, whose stock was obviously not well suited for me. I think avoiding excess is the key in length, drop, or cast.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
Here you go
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c7UkkNyMTZ9NAztILpzjSLKvgIneAw5i7eqkZ3d3Eno/edit

Shooting styles varied. Some turn-of-the-century wing shooters shot with an erect neck, others crawled the stock.

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

Part of the confusion is that many old images showed the shooter in the 'ready' position, not as they were pulling the trigger

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

Clearly Live Bird and Inanimate Target guns had dimensions similar to those of today, except for the fact that shooters today are taller and much heavier than they were in 1900.
24 year old Union soldier in 1860 - 5’ 8” and 143.5#
22 year old American soldier in 1955 - 5' 8" and 150.2#
50th percentile for American 25 year old men in 2002 - 5’ 10” and 168#

In an August 2016 report from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's National Center for Health Statistics, the average weight of men in the United States rose from 181 pounds 1988 - 1994 to 196 pounds 2011-2014. Their average height remained the same at about 5 feet, 9 inches.
The average woman expanded from 152 pounds to 169 pounds while her height remained steady at just under 5 feet, 4 inches.

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,063
Likes: 565
Lloyd3 Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,063
Likes: 565
Thanks Dr. Drew, that's great info! The term "big-assed Americans" does really seem to apply now, eh? Oh well, the price of prosperity I suppose. I'm also hearing that unlike cast, drop is much harder to alter in a gun by bending. Is that a common understanding here as well?

Also, perhaps hammerguns need a bit more drop, and for obvious reasons? In the beginning they were all flint or cap ignition.

Last edited by Lloyd3; 03/30/23 05:19 PM.
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 91
eeb Offline
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 91
I’ve shot pigeon/trap guns from 100+ years ago and the dimensions were high and “modern”. It was a style thing related to hunting guns, in my observation. Not everyone shot heads up

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
its easy to fix to much drop with a dense foam comb pad...

too little drop can be compensated for somewhat, by holding the forend closer to the triggerguard...

https://www.google.com/search?q=den...AEAoAEByAEIwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz-serp


keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127
Likes: 1129
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127
Likes: 1129
Drop is the dimension that is the most easily adapted to, IMO. However, I can shoot guns with too much drop much better than I can one with too little. A little more erect stance will accommodate a gun with lots of DAH, 2 3/4" to 3". Over 3" and I'm out. My best DAH is 2 5/8". I'm not a trap shooter and have no use for guns with less than 2 7/16" DAH. I want the gun to shoot where I look. I don't want to have to "float the bird" to accommodate a gun that is stocked too straight, and refuse to do so.

To clarify my favorite dims, I am 6' 2", 174#, with a slender face and build. Yeah, I gained about 8-10 lbs. over the winter. I prefer to be at about 165#. Holiday season and all ..........


May God bless America and those who defend her.
1 member likes this: John Roberts
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,670
Likes: 372
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,670
Likes: 372
Originally Posted by Drew Hause
Here you go
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c7UkkNyMTZ9NAztILpzjSLKvgIneAw5i7eqkZ3d3Eno/edit

Shooting styles varied. Some turn-of-the-century wing shooters shot with an erect neck, others crawled the stock.

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

Part of the confusion is that many old images showed the shooter in the 'ready' position, not as they were pulling the trigger

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

Clearly Live Bird and Inanimate Target guns had dimensions similar to those of today, except for the fact that shooters today are taller and much heavier than they were in 1900.
24 year old Union soldier in 1860 - 5’ 8” and 143.5#
22 year old American soldier in 1955 - 5' 8" and 150.2#
50th percentile for American 25 year old men in 2002 - 5’ 10” and 168#

In an August 2016 report from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's National Center for Health Statistics, the average weight of men in the United States rose from 181 pounds 1988 - 1994 to 196 pounds 2011-2014. Their average height remained the same at about 5 feet, 9 inches.
The average woman expanded from 152 pounds to 169 pounds while her height remained steady at just under 5 feet, 4 inches.

Interesting numbers. Today, we may be taller than we were, but we are shorter than almost all other 1st world countries. This is something that has happened over my lifetime I think.

In any event, we must be a nation of very short necks because I certainly struggle to get behind a 2.5" drop. I tend to crawl the stock with my neck well forward, and a slightly short stock will leave me beating my cheek bone with my thumb. I'm routinely noted for holding the forearm too far back though I have reasonably long arms for a 6 ft person. Just the way it goes, but I prefer around 2.75" of drop and 3" does not scare me. Anything under 2" makes me think the gun was built for a scope. More cast off seems to help a bit. Yet, I have a very narrow face.

I'd be interested in being measured by a true pro, but one that is schooled for the hunting shooter, not the high-gun target shooter. I'm not sure where to find such a person, though they must be out there somewhere, just not local.


_________
BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
a few come to mind that will happy to relieve you of a few thousands bucks...

https://www.google.com/search?q=cus...AcgBAsABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#ip=1

say, heres an idea...for every buck you blow on wood...make a matching contribution to this fine forum...

the odds are 50-50...either way, you win...

Last edited by ed good; 03/30/23 06:57 PM.

keep it simple and keep it safe...
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.061s Queries: 36 (0.040s) Memory: 0.8593 MB (Peak: 1.8988 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-03-29 08:18:49 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS