doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Holtz Auction and Shipping to the US

I am sure that a few of you have won guns at a Holtz Auction. I know there is the hammer price and "juice" AKS "Buyers Fee" however in reading the information on their site, it appears to be a royal PIA to work through the licensing and freight etc to bring the gun back to the states. I would appreciate learning what I may be in for regarding paperwork and cost if I did bid and eventually win a gun at their auction.

Thanks!

If the firearm is post 1898 you have to have either an importer in the states or if you can talk someone with an FFL they can do "occasional" imports. Most won't. Holt's will export now from what I've heard so they can handle the export paperwork. All firearms from the UK must be shipped via Air Freight which makes the cost higher. I imported 3 firearms, 1 full length leather and wood rifle case and one leather cartridge magazine last fall, for export and shipping cost was right at 500 pounds. Plus your importer's fee's.

I use an importer and all it takes is money and worse time. They, Holt's, the exporter, HGSS-global, and importer do all the leg work. As a rule of thumb, you can not afford to import low value guns, unless you buy them very cheap, they are in very good condition, and they sell for a whole lot more here than they do at Holt's. So you can not buy a gun for $200.00, get it shipped to you and think selling it for $500.00 is going to come close to breaking even. Some guns semi autos or box lock ejectors sell for very little money even when in great condition. But you can not buy basket case project guns and ever come out well.

Non gun items can be shipped directly to you by Holt's and they handle everything including charging for getting it done. So you can buy things like accessories, gun cases, minor parts, not including receivers. If possible, I buy things which can be packed inside of other things I buy, like stock blanks in a gun case or accessories that fit inside other items to make shipping easier. The fewer packages the better. But either way you have to calculate both the auction house commission and the cost of shipping your items to you in the total cost and sometimes your great find become only an interesting money pit if you are not careful. But I like money pits and have a new shovel ever auction.

Mike and KY,
Thanks for sharing your personal experience. It seems like a money pit but those guns I see at Holtz just get my juices flowing. I guess the next step for me would be to find an importer. From there if I understand correctly, the importer and Holtz (the exporter) will be able to work out the paperwork.

Thanks for your insight!!

KY Jon is completely correct. Most low end guns (under $1k) are not economically viable if looking to break even or better.

I have now imported two pairs and two singles, I still own all as I brought to use not speculate. If I were to sell I would break even on first pair, lose on the next single, make on the the second single gun, and likely lose on the last pair. No regrets, just realistic.

My best success is a 1901 Boss SLE, which required a restock, but had new barrels by Boss in 1979 with Great Wall thickness. I paid a low price and after restocking and other minor gunsmithing, I am $4-8k in equity, however none of that matters, I brought it to shoot it and hopefully hand down. I got very lucky the gun did not draw much interest and not much bidding competition.

My last purchase had no other bidders (big warning sign) add purchase to import cost, putting back on face and refinishing, I am upside down $2k, but I am still happy as I really wanted an actual Irish guns sold in Dublin.

Importation takes 3-9 months, it is frustrating but that is life as it depends on bureaucrats. I have used a fellow board member and have been happy with his service. (PM me for name if you want it)

As KY Jon points out non gun items can be purchased and are more easily, though not inexpensively, shipped. Only go after non gun items which are unavailable in the US and worth a premium to you. I have purchased a fully accessorized Purdey 16ga case, only one like it I have ever seen, and some rare 16ga Purdey items. All cost more than reasonable persons would want to pay by the time I got them.

There are great deals to be found, but for most of us buying them is not an easy thing and the numbers don’t work for us without careful analysis. Buy what you really really want to use, understand the math.

When has buying double made money sense? Like most here I buy to enjoy them and worry about profits later. Guns are a very bad investment if you are looking for any positive returns. Only thing worse firearm related would be ammo unless you have a great market for empties. But if you buy quality it will always have a following. Looking can be the best fun you have, buying can be a mixed bag and shooting them is always great to me. Selling them is business and needs to be treated as such.

I buy guns to shoot and if they can not be shot I let others have them. Every gun I own, has been shot and most are shot on a fairly regular basis. My collecting interest have changed over time and cover a wide range these days. Different opening systems for double guns, examples of almost every pump gun that I have come across, cripple stocked guns and even guns I just like the looks of have made their way onto my gun room walls. If I pass away today, I have gotten my value out of them and have left detailed instructions what to keep and what and how to sell the rest. Always do the last thing so you family gets a decent amount of money back out of your addiction and do not burden them with figuring out how to dispose of your things.

I'm curious about Holt's now shipping to USA. If one buys a pre 1898 gun, will Holt's ship it directly to the house or does the pre 1898 gun also have to go through an importer as well?

Mine have been shipped FedEx but I had to get it released by Customs which was a pain during Covid. Might be easier now but I would not bet on it. I had to get an importer locally, importer agent, to deal with the import duties and get it released. Then I just went to the FedEx hub at the airport, showed id, signed for it and was done. Even though it was a non gun according to BATF and an antique by age FeDEx would not just release it to me. Part of that might be the person I was dealing with just did not know and part was they were not willing to make the distinction between 1898 modern guns and before 1898 non modern, non guns. Total cost was less than $200.00 local to get released with a little less in shipping. Long gone are the days when I could buy the same gun and have it mailed directly to my home by ParcelForce for $55.00. Everybody wants money today to just do their jobs.

Export rules from Europe don’t consider 1898 and prior non guns, they still shoot what is considered modern shells, you will still need exit permitting. I am not sure on BATF import of antiques but believe that will require some paperwork. I think you are stuck using an importer.

There is no BATF form for pre 1898 guns. Holt's can deal with the exporting as they have done it for me several times, for guns made in the 1870-1880's. They shipped them FedEx. It got hung up at my airport and to get it past customs I had to get a local custom agent to collect the import duties and pay a bond. The bond I expect was their payment in part. It was not terribly expensive but it did take time. With things opened up I might be able to deal directly with Customs, but during lock down you could not see them in person, for anything, which clogged up the entire process.

I think FedEx had a dollar limit what they would release without a customs agent and I recall it was under a thousand dollars. Unfortunately my gun had a declared value above their cutoff value. Still, I got my Westley Richards single-bite snap action bar-in-wood hammergun that had 2 3/4" chambers and nitro proof. A ready to shoot and have fun gun. Most of the bar-in-wood, crab joint guns, have lots of cracks or wood repairs but this one is perfect, for now.

If you have a question about Holt's I find a message to them gets a response, just look up shipping and send them an email. They can walk you through what they can do on their end and if they can not do it will give you a list of people who can do it. It sounds more complicated than it is but it will take time and a bit of money. You could also just use one of the importers here on the board and let them do all the leg work. Easier, but cost a bit more and will take longer as they batch ship things trying to keep the cost per gun down with volume batch discounting. Holt's used "Chordline Limited" to ship my gun by Federal Express freight directly to my airport FedEx office. I am looking at the invoice. FedEx got it at their location but had to hold it until Customs released it and for that to happen I had to pay a duty, tax. Now I would just use my agent or see if I could do it directly with Customs and then go to FedEx and pick everything up after it was released. I am going to be doing this again in a month if I get lucky on the next main sale at Holt's.