doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Hardware store small gauge pioneers

What kind of guys bought hardware store doubles in small gauges?
Ever wonder about that? I have. Growing up in the 50's all the guys I knew bought 12 bores. It was no contest. We hardly saw the point in buying a 16 (too small to be big, too big to be small) or of all things, a 20! And .410'a were a kid's toy. The 12 was a man's gun pure and simple. And so it was the popular choice of all the guys I grew up with. Were the 20's and 16's bought as ladies' guns? If so how come the four twenties I have were not cut down to fit smaller folks? Nitro Specials and early Stevens and Mod. B's must've been bought by eccentrics or budding sportsmen in those days. I have a Nitro Special marked
Western Field MW&Co. made in 1926. Gads, that's 80 years ago!I know that rich guys and the elites bought 28's and flossy 20 gauge Parkers. But what was going on in a blue collar guy's head in buying a small bore working man's gun. My first good shotgun was a Marlin L.C. Smith. I could have had it in .410, 20, or 16 for the same price. But I had to have a twelve. Anybody else ever wondered about this topic? If so, let's hear from you. Chopper

In the 50s, the repeaters were the guns to have, even the rich guy's guns played second fiddle to these.
I had always questioned smallbores as true field guns - its not as tho kindly ol' farmer Brown had a cabinet full to pick from.

You see a powerful lot of 16ga guns in Southern "Bird" country. Many of these hunters, hunted nothing else & the 1oz 16 ga load was near perfect for them. Probably see more A-5 "Sweet 16s" in the south than anywhere.

I never saw anything but 12s on Nova Scotia's Eastern Shore where I grew up. Then villagers who had gone away to the Boston States to live would come home to hunt sea ducks after the war with Model 12s. As Lowell said, they were the guns to have. It has remained so. As far as I know, I'm the only one for many miles around using the 16 and 20 in a duck blind. And definitely the only doubles in those gauges.

This is a 1911 AD.


The Browning Sweet 16 was my dad's favorite.

Pete

I grew up in Northern Califonia, in an area where many of the landholders were what we called "Italian Swiss", who were from the far north eastern part of Italy, formerly ruled by Austria. Many of their tenant farmers (the people who actually waded around in cow manure all winter long), were Italian Americans from Calabria and the provinces south of Naples. All of these folks prefered 16s over any other guage, at least all of the first and second generation who came to the US before WWII. After that, many of them had served in the US service and wanted all things purely "American" meaning, in this context, 12s and repeaters, not 16s and doubles. But there were plenty of people around when I grew up in the late '40s and '50s who thought a double barreled 16 was just the only gun a man should use.

Shotguns were used primarily for hunting California quail in that time and place; every other use was secondary. Kids started with single shot .410s, period, and graduated to 16s, (and later, 12s).

20s were for women, experts, and eccentrics, and there weren't many of them hunting. I never saw a 28 until the '60s, and that was on a skeet field.

The grinding of mental gears required a second cup of coffee in seeking an answer to this question.:}
I think it is a Southern or rural thing. It is true that the bird gun of choice was a 16 gauge. Twelves were there as well but for mostly utilitarian shooting.
If we admit that not many years had past since America was settled, and settled mostly by Europeans, certain Old World thinking was the thinking of the day. At least in many nuances and actions of daily life. The choice of a shotgun was influenced by these factors. The sixteen was almost the gauge if choice in the continental countries and the light twelve gauge game gun was king in England. LIGHT is the key word here.
American makers did not produce many guns that were on a par (as to lightness) with the English.
A second factor is that "all" boys were turned out to shoot at a very early age. I was shooting well before I was ten years old and I know that my grandfather (born in 1874) did earlier. Most youth of these tender years did not have the physical stature to handle a full weight 12 gauge. If a father could not afford any but a single shot twelve gauge, then it had to do for all in the family. But, if the funds were there, a small gauge, therefore lighter gun, could be provided to the boys in the family. We sort of graduated up to a man's gun as were grew in height and weight. I don't remember ever seeing a youth stock or a cut down one in my early days.
Some practices such as ground swatting, shooting out of trees and baiting were acceptable and expected, for it was meat that the boys went out for. Like Lowell, only a couple of shell went with that 410. If shot, it was expected that they would be "traded" for birds or small animals. I know that these practices are, today, not acceptable by sportsmen, but those were different times and philosophies.
Seems to me that the prevailing thinking was that a boy should learn with a small gauge. This was even held by me, as I taught my son to shoot with a 410. A Grade B Stevens SxS we still own.
He learned well but, alas, shoots Winny 101 Pigeons today.
So, to sum up. I think it was a cultural thing.
Just thoughts from me to you as I finish that second cup and smile at the memories. Good ones !!:}
Best,
John

I've noticed a ton of 16 gauge doubles, especially from LC Smith and Ithaca. Also ever wonder why Winchester released their Model 12 in 20 gauge back in December of 1912?? Now that has always confused me, except maybe the need or "I got to have mentality" for the 12 gauge was simply a myth.
All the best

Nothing reminds me of the old better days than the American field grades. My English gun fits me well in the armchair, but in the field and maybe I'm more patriotic these days, I'll take one of my AH Fox guns or a Remington 1894(all lower grades of course) for a country outting.
While I'm in the spirit of it all, I'll order something from LL Bean!

In the early 1900's major hardware stores in the East did a land office business in smallbore guns, especially Parkers. Murtha Appleton and E.K. Tryon in Philadelphia and William Wagner & Son in Washington DC sold literally thousands of Parkers, with a signifcant number of them 16, 20, and 28 gauges. A single order in the Parker Bros. Order Books for E.K. Tryon of Philly goes on for 12 full pages of legal-sized sheets! Wm. Wagner's store was literally right across the street from the Library of Congress and the US Capitol. He sold guns to people like John Phillip Souza, Gen. Billy Mitchell, president Grover Cleveland, "Marse" Henry Bartholomew, and the common folk as well. Great little 28 ga. Parkers still seep out of the woodwork around the Washington DC - Baltimore area. Those fortunate enough to be there first when the surface are indeed lucky. KBM