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Joined: Mar 2002
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Damascus, i thought in you statement you were saying the case colors over here were not vibrant colors like traditional English colors I was saying people who case color over here are going for American gun traditional colors.i think robin Brown said he used bone charcoal exclusively Mark

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Originally Posted by Stanton Hillis
....It would appear, from this video, that oxygen will not invade the super-heated pack for a few moments, even with the lid removed.

Very interesting.
It could possibly be the volume of charcoal? Very generous appearing crucible.

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Take a good look at the crucible packing what else do you see?


The only lessons in my life I truly did learn from where the ones I paid for!
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Looks like the charcoal has been burnt off at least once before? Coarser than what Dr. Gaddy was using in his mixes as well.


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Originally Posted by damascus
Take a good look at the crucible packing what else do you see?
Nothing. But he inadvertently revealed his secret ingredient, a can of Raid bug spray...
JR


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God bless America, long live the Republic.
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Originally Posted by damascus
Take a good look at the crucible packing what else do you see?
I'll take a swing at this. The sieve size seems to be quite course, and certainly the raw material sources would be different, but the charcoal in the video might be prepped a bit different than what we might see typically in the US. There was relatively little burn down of the char level after the heat cycle.

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SKB,craigd. Very close indeed, The charcoal mixture is made only from from a coarser grain hardwood and carburised bone amongst other things. Next think about the water next?


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Thanks damascus for digging into it a bit deeper, and apologies to Steve for completely missing his comment about charcoal coarseness.

The water? Apparently, the local tap water is just fine for this technique, unless there is a rain catch container, not visible, but distilled water might(?) not be dispensed with a hose. The water quench tank likely has used water in it. I was surprised that copper wiring used to bind some parts, so there may be a higher than normal copper component in the quench water. There were two different charcoal bins, and they appeared to be used in sequence. I'm guessing new material was used around the gun parts, and possibly used charcoal is a filler to top off the crucible, based on possible appearance differences.

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He placed the crucible in a cold oven.


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Gentlemen;

Here are some things that I saw in Robin's video.

The parts are de-greased via ultrasonic cleaner and then some of them are wired together with copper wire--this to me shows that his max temp is well away from 1984 degrees F for copper melting and I will comment on this later in this list of things I saw. Robin is not overly concerned with touching the just cleaned parts with his bare hands and his hands seem clean. Robin also did not place any additional steel supports wired to the side locks to prevent warping as some American color case hardeners are known to have done--another indicator of the control of max temp by Robin to my mind.

Robin carefully and strategically keeps the parts separated and I suspect they are placed in a pattern that he has developed from experience.

Robin surrounds the packed parts in the crucible with the charcoal and bone mix and it seems to me that the first part packed (the action) must have had about 2 inches of this mix to rest upon when Robin placed it in the crucible. The charcoal/bone mix is coarse as mentioned I would say that the mix is about 70/30 charcoal to bone and the bone looks very clean indicating that either Robin or someone else "burned" away all the animal flesh before it was mixed with the charcoal. As to the mix there is complete absence of fines as you see none when Robin dropped some of the mix on the floor. I think it is important to note that Robin placed 3-4 inches of mix on top of all the parts, then compacted it by tapping on the crucible and then before he placed the cover on the crucible he added more mix to completely fill the crucible--you have to look close to see that the crucible was filled to top. He wisely made the top 1 inch short so that he could place his tongs into the crucible to remove the top when he was taking the hot crucible to the water tank. This cover is very loosely fitted. The "shaking" and tapping down of the mix in the crucible gives Robin the proper mix surround of the parts that he desires as well, I suspect.

This filling of the crucible completely, the 3-4 inches of charcoal/bone mix cover over all the parts, and how Robin flipped the crucible over into the water tank, kept the ambient air contact with the parts to a bare minimum.

The tongs that Robin has with nearly 4 foot long handles are built for purpose and give him great leverage in holding the crucible as well as distance from the water splash and thermal reaction and allow him the leverage also for his final flip into the water quench.

I spent a couple of decades of my early life in a forging/blacksmith shop and learned how to judge temperature by color and the max temperature that Robin heated the crucible is of interest and important to my mind. You will note that he has a gas-fired furnace and there are no temperature gauges seen or any cable emerging from the furnace to indicate any remote temp devices. Therefore I think that Robin judges the temp by eye and the temp appeared to me to about 1500 degrees F when he opened the furnace door. And he lets the crucible heat for a time that he has learned in his years and from his mentor when he was a young man---I believe it was Billy Woodward.

As mentioned the water barrel has been air infused somewhat, but no continual air flow as some American hardeners advocate, and it is just local water and at whatever temp it is. However, the way that Robin holds the tongs and flips the crucible dumping the parts into the water quench is very important--he lowers the crucible into the water for a short distance as he flips pouring all the contents into the water so that there is the barest minimum contact with any ambient air. You will also have to look closely to see the front of the crucible enter the water during the flip.

In the video Robin shows that there is not warping of the side locks fitting into the action body. I believe his control of the max temp of the crucible and its contents of course is key to the warp control. Of course there is bound to be some minor warping such as with the triggers that will have to be relieved.

As a side note, after Robin made this film some time ago I wrote him an email and thanked him for doing the video for us amateurs and he wrote back saying that it was great fun for him to show the process. We are thankful for craftsmen like Robin who are kind to show us things that are not shown by others in the gun trade.

5 members like this: redoak, susjwp, Stanton Hillis, craigd, Drew Hause
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