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Sidelock
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I was looking at Hodgdon's site hoping to find low-pressure data for loads above one ounce, no, and looked at Remington STS hulls cut to 2,5 and there is one 1 ounce load at 7200psi. I thought I would check to see how that load translated to a 2.75 hull but found that it doesn't. I guess I may assume that to make the RemSTS 2.5 loading the shell must be trimmed and that is the only load Hodgdon tested so that is all they want to publish, but what I find curious is that they use UNIVERSAL powder in it but Universal is not used in any Rem STS 1 ounce 2.75 loads. Would anyone have any idea how that works? Just some added information, if you take the 7200 psi RemSTS load and substitute a WInAA 2.5 hull the pressure is 8500psi.

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That load is with a AA12R wad, which is a short wad designed in prehistoric times for the 1 3/8 oz. and 1 1/2 oz. short magnum 12 ga 2 3/4" shell. With lighter payloads it gas seals poorly, thus the low pressure result with 1 oz in the 2 1/2" hull. It's a lousy wad and will make a lousy load. Forget it.

Universal is on the slow side for 1oz. 12 gauge. Similar to Unique. They can't test and publish everything, and Hodgdon's data is on the old side at least much of it.

They do publish this for a Federal Gold Medal and 1 1/8 oz.

Winchester Super Hcp 19.4 Ched. 209 Fed. 12SO 6,400 PSI 1,145

My concern is that it would fit in the hull. I use the CB 2100 which is a clone of the 12S0 and it works perfectly with ONE OUNCE and a powder of similar bulk as 19.4 of SH. I only use the wads intended for straight wall hulls with the Federal shells.

Not everything these guys publish is actually practical. It may take a 12S3 to make this even work.

A few days ago, last I checked, Ballistic Products had the Cheddite 209 primers in stock and Grafs had Super Handicap.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I bet the above mentioned load would work in a TOP GUN hull. Use the newer ones with the plastic base wad.

Last edited by Shotgunjones; 07/16/22 04:19 PM.

"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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Sidelock
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Mr. Jones. Thank you for the reply. I didn't notice the wad was an AA12R which I happen to have 3 and a half bags but never thought I'd have a use, and guess I still don't. Buying, or trying to buy Universal powder just for that load isn't practical. I make a 2&3/4 inch 1 ounce load now with Clays that if the data is accurate suits. It just struck me odd they would come up with a load using a powder they don't use in other common 12 ga loadings just because the hull is 2.5. Well, I guess they know what they are doing. Thanks again.

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Originally Posted by liverwort
Well, I guess they know what they are doing.

Which is what I thought when I started loading 40 years ago. I know better now....

I suspect the origin of the load you cite was that they wanted to offer 'something' before the general availability of 2.5" Cheddite hulls and Gulandi wads.


"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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Sidelock
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First what is your pressure goal? 5,000/1 ounce, 6,000/1 ounce or 7,000/1 ounce. Second what hulls do you have to work with. Third what wads, primers and powder. Once you give someone those inputs they might be able to get you into loads you can use. What you listed is not a great combination, workable, but not great. Then load up and have them pressure tested. Never trust information freely given over the internet. A single minor mistake could be a real issue.

I have over 30 powders, seven different types of primers, a pickup load of different wads, tens of thousands of hulls in everything from 10 to .410 and years of accumulated reloading manuals and recorded data and I still trust, but verify, by having "real" new stuff not tested by a known source tester. Printed stuff, from decades ago I take with a small grain of salt and anything off the internet with a small bolder of salt. In honesty, I have taken loads for 2 3/4" and loaded in 2 1/2" using roll crimps with fairly good results but that is not really very safe.

Thinking out loud, have you looked at some of the straight walled euro hulls or Federal hulls? They are cheap, or free for pickup, at most shooting ranges. Straight wall is a bit easier to find low pressure loads for than a tapered hull like STS or AA hulls. Get a large number of them first. Then start doing your load research. Find one and then let it become your default low pressure loads. I would also look at a Federal Hull trimmed down to 2 1/2", with AA wad and Clay's powder. Load up six of them and send them out to test. Once you have found what you want load only that load in that hull so from that day forwards you will know every hull loaded of that type is a low pressure load, safe in all your guns.

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Sidelock
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I second what KY Jon said about utilizing pressure testing sources, like Tom Armbrust and others. It totally eliminates guesswork.


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eeb Offline
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How would using 2.75” data in 2.5” reloads be potentially unsafe if components are unchanged? Using the Hardin crimp with an overshot card should have minimal effect on pressure. I say that without any testing data to back it up but has anyone had reloads tested that utilize the Hardin crimp method?

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Sidelock
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Hartin crimp, with a "t'.

Developed by a member here.


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Sidelock
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I just thought the use of a powder not used in any other 12 gauge load, to make a 2&1/2 inch 12 gauge load was surprising.

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Sidelock
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Please explain how the “Hardin Crimp with a T” makes using 2 3/4 data in same hull with the same data save roll crimped from 2 1/2 would raise pressures or invalidate the load?

I have been of the belief that 2 3/4 load data that fit in 2 1/2 lengths hulls were ok, am I wrong, and if so why?


Michael Dittamo
Topeka, KS
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