doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Barrel Proof

Saw a listing for a cape gun that had the load stamped on the outside of the shotgun barrel. Basically it was German for about 35 Grains of SchP. and a 1 ounce lead ball. I guess this is the reason later British guns were labelled Not for Ball. I had never seen this before. I don't remember what type powder it is.

"Schultze" was a 14 grain/dram bulk powder, so 35 grain = 2 1/2 dram.
I don't know the years that the load was marked on German guns.

Under the 1896 British Supplementary Nitro Proof Rules, barrels proved with Nitro powder were to be marked indicating the powder and the maximum service charge in grains
1896 Lancaster
“E.C.” (No. 1) 42 grains = 3 Dram with MAXm. 1 1/8 oz. shot



Belgian guns were so marked 1897-1903.
12g with 65mm chambers S. Bougnet for William Read & the U.S. market.
1 1/8 oz. shot with “E.C. No. 3”, a 33 grains bulk smokeless powder = 3 Dr. Eq.

I bet it was 1 oz of lead shotI(Blei)??? Did it read Kugel or what?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

It was stamped with the powder charge on the outside of the barrel and was stamped as 28.3 Gr. Bl. The 28.3 grams is about exactly 1 oz and I thought it was a load for a ball cartridge in the 16 gauge barrel ( being a cape gun ) but after reading your post I realized it may have been an abbreviation for a shot load. I was being swayed by the gun type.

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I am still diggin', but if it were proved from a bullet, it would be stamped Bl.G = Blei -Geschoß.




Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Here is a sketch showing s montage of similar stamps.

2,2 g Sch. P. over 32g Blei a proof load is 4,4 grams of Schultze & 42,7 grams of shot...


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

In the post 1891 proof law period, a barrel intended for shot should be marked with a crown S (Schrot), if intended for a single projectile (bullet) it should be marked with a crown G (Geschoss). Other markings indicate chamber and/or bore dimensions, type bullet/shot or powder (early marks may show charge weight, later bullet weight). Note some smooth bore barrels were intended for full diameter solid bullets and those that were intended for shot and were choked (marked crown W) were marked "not for ball" (nicht fur kugel). To ID if gun is a combination or not. the determining marks are the crown S or crown G, other markings support or explain these.
Mike

These marks are on the outside of the 16 gauge barrel. THe right barrel is a 9.3x72. There are no pictures of the flats or water table. There is a mark in front of the charge and load stampsand is a Crown over something. Unfortunately it is not clear in the picture. It would appear to be a G much more likely than an S. I am going to contact the seller and see if he will check it and also send pictures of the barel flats and water table.

I understand this is not applicable to German proved guns, but for future reference the only powder marks that I've seen have been "E.C.", "Schultze", and 'M' for Mullerite - all are Bulk 42 gr. = 3 Dram.
"E.C. No. 3" is also common and was a 33 grain = 3 Dram powder. Mullerite No. 2 was also a 33 gr. powder
S2 is very rare - “New Schultze” or “Schultze No. 2” was a 12 grain/dram or 36 grain - 3 Dram

Here are the Belgian marks



"E.C. No. 3" with the stylized lion



To interpret the load marking the grams powder must be converted to grains, then to the grains/dram for the drams powder.
2gr72 poudre = 2.72 grams = 42 grains = 3 drams "Schultze"
The grams lead must be converted to ounces

Comparisons from the 1896 UK Rules of Proof Service Charges for Nitro Powder
https://books.google.com/books?id=inQCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA7



And there were more!

42 grain = 3 Dram Equivalent Bulk Powders
“E.C.” No. 1
“Schultze”
DuPont Bulk (40 gr.)
Curtis & Harvey “Amberite” (40 gr. on introduction - later 42 gr.)
Sporting Smokeless Powder Syn., Ltd “Cannonite Shot-gun”
Smokeless Powder Co. “S.S.” (Smokeless Shot-gun) (43 grains and not offered very long - it ran much higher pressures with small bores)
Cooppal & Co. “Cooppal’s No. 1”
Louis Muller & Cie S.A. “Mullerite No. 1”
United States Smokeless Powder Co. “Gold Dust”
Dynamit Nobel’s Troisdorf Powder Co. “Troisdorf” (41.5 grains)
American Wood Powder
“J.B.” Powder

36 Grain = 3 Dram Equivalent Bulk Powders
New DuPont Bulk (37 grains)
Laflin & Rand Bulk (37 grains)
Hazard Powder Co. “Blue Ribbon” (37 grains)
“E.C.” No. 2 (Improved)
“New Schultze” or "Schultze No. 2"

33 Grain = 3 Dram Equivalent Bulk Powders
“New E.C. (Improved) No. 3” (introduced in U.S. in 1904)
Curtis’s & Harvey “Diamond Smokeless” (1903)
Red Star (New Explosives Co., Stowmarket)
Walsrode Smokeless & Waterproof Gun Powder Co. “Walsrode Gray”
Louis Muller & Cie S.A. “Mullerite No. 2”
Nobel’s Explosive Co. “Empire”
“Cooppal’s No. 2” (30 grains = 3 Dr. Eq.)


I know nothing about the French powders

I was hoping for a bourbon thread when I saw the title.