doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Wall thickness measurement

Woodreaux: back on p.4 I posted an image of my set-up. Having the barrels secured with bungee cords affixed to a weighted box allows me to rotate the barrel while I'm measuring. Typically the thinnest spot is the lateral wall.
On the report I provide I document only the MWT at the points shown, but will note other numbers (or the location of significant pits seen with the bore scope) under "Comments" if needed.
"Chamber" is chamber length and diameter. The breech end of chambers of c. 1900 12g U.S. doubles is usually .809” -.812”, tapering to .795” - .798”, and unfortunately I've measured some chambers that were honed to remove pits also.



ed will note I have my pattern welded barrel MWT recommendations on the form. Obviously those recommendations can be discussed with the gun owner and modified depending on the barrel composition, based on incomplete but IMHO pretty good data ie. we now have composition analysis and tensile strength testing on a significant sample of vintage barrels:
Twist and Crolle Damascus tensile strength is about 55,000 psi
Winchester Standard Ordnance and other "cold rolled" Bessemer/Decarbonized steels and AISI 1020 are similar in strength at about 60,000 psi
c. 1900 Belgian sourced “Fluid Steel” used by all the U.S. makers (Cockerill, Siemens-Martin & Krupp Open Hearth) and AISI 1030 are similar in strength at 75,000 - 85,000 psi
Krupp Fluss Stahl (Homogeneous Fluid Steel) was introduced about 1890 might be a little stronger
AISI 1040 (and modified), Vickers, Cockerill Acier Universel or Acier Special & Bohler “Blitz” are similar in strength at about 100,000 psi
Winchester Nickel Steel, Marlin “Special Smokeless Steel”, Remington Ordnance Steel, Krupp “Nirosta” (1912 patent NIchtROstender STAhl 21% Chromium / 7% Nickel Stainless Steel introduced in 1913), 4140 Chrome Moly (not used until after 1930s) and 4340 (Chromium, Nickel and Molybdenum) are all similar in strength at > 115,000 psi

doc drew, this is all very nice, but after one inspects the barrels and takes measurements at various points, then what?...

based upon measurements only, what are your guide lines to determine if gun is safe to shoot?...

so far, no one else here seems to be able or willing to answer that question...it does not have to be complex...

unless no one here has enough experience measuring barrel walls to make judgements re suspect barrels...

and you will be happy to know that this is the last time i will ax this question in this thread...

i give up...

Answer your own questions. What are your guidelines and how do you determine that they are met? You've been asked directly and refused to answer multiple times. Why can you not do this?

Ed, I bought a gun from you. Afterwards I had it inspected and found it had been honed considerably and was out of proof. Still safe to shoot but you never mentioned a word about that in your ad. And that gun, you knew, was meant to be used by my daughter-in-law. I'm still ok with the purchase. But you are the last person on this board to be talking about safe guns. Sorry Ed, you're a very smooth talker but you have zero credibility.

argo, your post is full of contridictions...

i deemed the gun safe to shoot...

apparently, so do you...

what do you want from me?

Ed, I know this is difficult for you. But how about fundamental truth in advertising?

Check proof check mwt check bore diamiter,you have all this information for free given to you use it EDD.argo you are way to nice to EDD you should have returned the gun . so now it's on you and you accepted it and let him off the hook.

Actually, it's much better for Argo44 this way. If he had simply returned the gun, and got his money back, he wouldn't be able to whine and complain about it here, for the rest of his life.

What you will never see in all of this repeated complaining about ed and this shotgun, is an admission from Argo that he failed to request bore measurements before he purchased the gun. We have no Proof Laws here. And the vast majority of gun sellers do not have the equipment to measure bores or wall thickness.

I neglected to ask for bore dimensions of a gun that was advertised pn Gunbroker as a 12 gauge H grade Lefever. It turned out to be the only known H grade Lefever that is a 10 gauge. I did not complain, nor did I ask for a refund.

Well, even if Argo had requested bore & wall thickness measurements, he wouldn’t have gotten them. Ed’s already admitted that he doesn’t own the tooling or even know how to take these measurements. That in itself is extremely suspect when it comes to guy who’s been peddling guns for a long time…..if your selling quite a few vintage guns as a job or even a hobby, invest in the tooling to give those very basic measurements. If he would’ve bought that tooling a few years ago, they would’ve already paid for themselves 10x over. The other part of this is if you did take a gun you bought from Ed to a guy for measurements and found that the barrels were suspect…..do you think you’d get your money back from him? He’s got quite the track record on his return policy.
I doubt he even has a local gunsmith that does his measurements for him as he has never posted any type of measurements in any ad I’ve ever seen from him.

As tiresome as Argo can be be at times, you’re becoming equally as tiresome with your continuous sticking up for this attention seeking goof ball. Give it a rest. Ed brings all of this on himself. I’ve had a few friends over the years that would go to bars and start fights, and instigate drama.
For no real reason other than to get excited, get a rise and have something to talk about on Monday. I used to help them get out of jams all the time especially if they picked the wrong fight….eventually I wised up and started letting them fend for themselves. They eventually gave up on the fight picking and instigating and settled down into somewhat normal adults.
Ed brings the shade onto himself. He does it for attention. No need to try and come to the rescue for a dipshit like Ed for the sake of just trying to prove a point.
Hopefully he’ll learn on his own one of these days, but I highly doubt it.

big sigh...

fusil, you are spewing from your mouth, lots of brown colored, foul smelling liquid that normally emits from the other end of a male bovine...

~never indicated that i do not possess bore wall thickness gauges...

-you have no clue what my return policy is...

~the word games i play here have nothing to do with my business policies, except to help me weed out malcontents before i make the mistake of shipping a gun to them...

and as no one here seems to have a clue as to what minimum bore thicknesses are, what the hell difference does it make anyhow?