February
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28
Who's Online Now
7 members (Mike Harrell, Borderbill, GETTEMANS, canvasback, Der Ami, 1 invisible), 123 guests, and 5 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics37,236
Posts526,446
Members14,246
Most Online462
Aug 5th, 2016
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 13 of 21 1 2 11 12 13 14 15 20 21
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,249
Likes: 189
mc Offline
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,249
Likes: 189
The data is complete you need to apply it .go buy some equipment do test post results

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,411
Likes: 529
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,411
Likes: 529
Originally Posted by ed good
too bad others do not provide more data

Look in the mirror as you say the above to yourself.


You remind me of a guy that used to pretend to be blind and sat on Broad Street In Augusta, GA about 1960. He wore dark eyeshades and dressed like a homeless guy, and held out a tin cup, begging for donations. At the end of the day he would look around and, when no one was looking, he would get up and walk away with no cane, obviously with good eyesight.

Don't try to spin this post as a "personal attack". It is a simple observation.


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,919
Likes: 154
Sidelock
***
OP Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,919
Likes: 154
I'm not beyond whining (begging) in the interest of science gentlemen wink and would very much like more small gauge end-of-chamber MWT numbers

The ONLY 28g barrel that I've measured was a Phil's Parker checked at Mike's cow pasture shoot in 2020. I did not keep the documentation but as I recall, both end-of-chambers measured about .105"

The earliest 28g pressure I've found were published in Frederick Toms, Sporting Guns and Gunpowder, 1897
with 3/4 oz. and + 10-14%
28 gr. Bulk (2 Dram) – 2.81 tons = 8,322 psi
18 gr. Dense (2 1/2 Dr.Eq.) – 3.01 tons = 8,994 psi

DuPont Brandywine Experimental Station data cited by Charles Askins in 1933, with DuPont Bulk Smokeless Powder
28g 2 Dram 5/8 oz. - 4.66 X 2240 = 10,438 psi + 10 - 14%

Since 28g pressures run higher than larger gauges, it would make sense that the end-of-chamber MWT would be slightly greater.

And a glorious Independence Day to each of you and your family

2 members like this: Ghostrider, campero
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 153
Likes: 34
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 153
Likes: 34
Drew Hause, very interesting your reply. It's the first time I read that 28 ga have more pressure than other gauges and that's the reason barrels thickness are wider than 20, 16, 12... I don't think so, but this is new for me and I'm in doubt.

You have information of the earliest 28g pressure testing. I suposse with black powder, so current pressure must be higher.

This is an interesting thread! Thanks!

Regards!


28 ga, hammerguns and all shotguns and rifles made by hands.
Waidmannsheil 🌿📯
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,919
Likes: 154
Sidelock
***
OP Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,919
Likes: 154
Hermano Campero: a helpful chart from “Proof Tests and Proof Marks: Practices of Manufacturers in the United States”, 1934. Limits are based on the 1925 British Rules of Proof. Long tons are converted to PSI simply by X 2240, and the numbers were measured by LUP so require adding 10 - 14% for modern piezo transducer numbers.
It is important to note that the standard 28g load then was 5/8 oz. and 2 1/2" .410 only 3/8 oz. The 2" .410 was 3/10 oz.

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

Modern U.S. SAMMI standards for 28g and 2 1/2" .410 allow max. pressure of 12,500 psi; 3" .410 13,500 psi.
12g and 16g are 11,500 psi and 20g 12,000 psi

The current CIP standards allow for greater pressure https://www.scribd.com/document/97965210/CIP-Shotshell-Pressures
28g is the same as 24g

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

but slightly LESS end-of-chamber wall thickness for small gauges, but the Category 1 “Standard Steel” is Non-alloy AISI 1045 with tensile strength = 101,526-123,137 psi
Category 2 is Non-alloy AISI 1060 and 3 Alloy with 3% Chromium and 2% Molybdenum with a Tensile Strength of 116,030 - 159,396 psi

1 member likes this: campero
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,249
Likes: 189
mc Offline
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,249
Likes: 189
I checked a icd 28ga.its .105 at the end of the chamber I have another icd 28 but the barrels are much heavier and it is .130 at the end of the chamber

2 members like this: campero, Drew Hause
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 10,998
Likes: 174
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 10,998
Likes: 174
Preacher, I did reply to your last nonsensical request about five days ago.

It appears that Dave feels you are too sensitive to handle the truth concerning the very conflicting data you have presented concerning safe barrel wall thicknesses according to guys considered to be knowledgeable about shotguns, and the thin honed out barrels of your one-and-only Damascus barreled gun.

I guess censorship is helping you. But it isn't doing a damn thing to help make this forum a source of factual knowledge.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,919
Likes: 154
Sidelock
***
OP Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,919
Likes: 154
Sensitive enough William to respond in detail to your question back on p. 7 regarding my ratty Smith OE, and sharing my rationale for using the gun, knowing that my decision would be criticized.

You however dismiss a reasonable request to share your Lefever wall thickness numbers, on a thread about measuring wall thickness, as nonsense. Why not man up and just admit you don't have a wall thickness gauge?

I recently read a review article regarding narcissistic personality disorder. There are several variants.
Those with one variant derive some perverse pleasure in manipulating and aggravating others - it feeds into their sense of omnipotence. And the fall back when confronted is to play the victim. That would be ed.
The most toxic variant is when the individual's greatest need/desire is for others to fear them - it feeds into their sense of invincibility. They respond to confrontation with rage and revenge, and often violence. This variant destroys every relationship, esp. in families. No one here fears you William.

Take a break William. Find some healing. Lose the hatred. If not for yourself, for your family. Restoration of broken relationships may still be possible.


I was hoping this could be a reference thread for future questions regarding wall thickness, but it typically went south. Dave can do with it what he wants.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,119
Likes: 68
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,119
Likes: 68
well drew, the foundation of human relations is manipulation of others...

and at the risk of aggravating you, your presentations of data are of little use without the application of guidelines to give the numbers value...

what is your goal in providing us with data? is it so we can develop or confirm our own guidelines?

Last edited by ed good; 07/10/22 09:12 AM.

keep it simple and keep it safe...
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 376
Likes: 21
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 376
Likes: 21
When measuring the wall thickness, is there a standard for how many measurements are made around the circumference of the barrel at each depth? I.e. do you measure at 12, 3, and 6 o'clock at each location? Or some other interval?


Jim
Page 13 of 21 1 2 11 12 13 14 15 20 21

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2022 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.080s Queries: 38 (0.057s) Memory: 0.8742 MB (Peak: 1.8992 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2023-02-04 18:26:28 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS