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no one else here or anywhere else for that matter, seems to make a big deal about barrel wall thickness in front of chambers...

come to think of it, of the hundreds of doublegons that i have sold over the years, i do not recall any one asking about the barrel wall thickness in front of the chambers...

maybe my concerns about shooter safety are much to do about nothing?

and now we learn from jack rowe, that only .020 9" down from the muzzles is ok...

so, logic says to stop measuring barrel walls, cause hit dont make no difference no how?

Last edited by ed good; 07/10/22 11:38 PM.

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although... once had a 12 gauge churchill box lock that had been sleeved...beautiful gun, beautiful sleeving job...only way one could tell that it was sleeved, was by the "sleeved" stamps on the barrel flats...however, the barrel walls in front of both chambers were only .060...per old eds advise, i reluctantly sent it back...at the time i was afraid to shoot it...wonder if i did seller a dis service?...

Last edited by ed good; 05/30/22 12:25 AM.

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and now im wondering if my concern about opening chambers on light 2 1/2" european made guns is also, much to do bout nuttin?

mebbe we should jes open erm awl up to 2 3/4 an be dun wid hit...shore wood solve duh short shell shortage problem, wouten hit...

ah mean, like who the hell needs rst any mo, any how...an when the action loossens up an the wood cracks, we could jes peen, shim, and glue her up, an keep on shootin...

wow...doublegon life jes got so much simpler...

Last edited by ed good; 05/30/22 12:50 AM.

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I'd like to thank the Preacher for his link to Dewey's Blog. I also recall that the Preacher has, in the past, also posted photos of his own Bill Henry dial indicator tool being used in a horizontal orientation.

Most folks seem to understand and agree that this type of tool is less prone to error or false readings when used vertically.

Originally Posted by Drew Hause
Flexing of the round support bar does not seem to be relevant to the relationship between the pin on the bar and the pin of the gauge, unless I contact the barrel wall with the bar.

Since the pin on the bar is pressed or screwed into the bar, it stands to reason that any undue lateral pressure on that pin will cause some slight deflection of that bar. Dewey didn't just make an unfounded statement concerning that potential error. He actually provided a detailed explanation, along with a short video showing just how much a tool steel bar can and will deflect when a lateral force was applied. He even used a trigger gauge to show us just how much force was applied to cause the deflection seen on his dial indicator.

Talk is cheap. Dewey backed up his talk with graphic video evidence. I didn't need such evidence to prove what I already know, because I have had to use a steady-rest on my own lathe when turning longer pieces of round steel stock, to prevent deflection during turning. I have also seen long steel line shafts or mandrel bars, up to 10 inches in diameter, flex SEVERAL INCHES under their own weight when lifted by a crane at their mid-point. I didn't need any dial indicator to see that long solid steel bars are quite flexible. The flexible nature of steel is also seen in seemingly rigid torsion bars.

I even worked with a guy who lost his left testicle when he unwisely decided to spin a stainless stainless steel rod in a 3600 rpm three jaw chuck polisher. The unsupported rod abruptly flexed enough to partially castrate him as soon as he applied lateral pressure with a piece of emery cloth. Ouch! Glad I didn't get to see that one.

It is also common knowledge that if you gave five guys five micrometers, or dial, or digital vernier calipers, and they measured the exact same item, they would likely get several slightly different measurements. This is why Machinist and Tool & Die Apprentices are taught proper measuring technique to minimize errors. I remember my High School Shop Class teacher showing us how the same measuring tool could give very different readings when used improperly. That potential operator induced measuring error is compounded with a trickier setup, such as trying to measure barrel wall thickness down deep in a shotgun barrel by using a long measuring instrument that can and will flex slightly under various lateral pressures.

That said, I would agree with those who feel that despite the known potential for error, a careful and skilled hand could use one of these tools to obtain reasonably accurate measurements. And let's face facts... the majority of shotgun barrels are not honed dangerously thin. So a slight measuring error is unlikely to put someone into a dangerous situation. Of course, no matter what sort of tool is used to measure barrel wall thickness, calibration before use is very important. And should readings on the thin side be found, especially at the points where pressure is still high, and eyeballs or fingers are in close proximity, then extreme caution, and/or a qualified second opinion should be sought before using the gun.

Originally Posted by ClapperZapper
I have never used one to measure shotgun barrels.

They are commonly in use in industrial piping environments.

Because, when things flow through a pipe, they wear it out from the inside, leading to leaks, big, and small.
So, they are pretty common.

Actually, the Ultrasonic Measuring equipment is rarely used to measure pipes or tubing after it wears out. That wear is more commonly detected when it begins to leak or abruptly ruptures. Then it is simply scrapped and replaced. But it is very commonly used in industry to measure wall thickness and find defects before the new product is shipped to the customer. My own experience with Ultrasonic and other Non-Destructive Testing (NDT) equipment was mentioned on page 3 of the "Wiggle in the Barrels" Thread. I have repaired them and/or made logic changes or edits in the PLC programs, but never worked as an Ultrasonic NDT operator. Companies wishing to cover their butts and avoid liability spend big money to purchase and maintain NDT testing equipment, so I assume they are better than the older and less efficient mechanical measuring systems.

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=614531&page=3

I guess my comments in response to GLS in that Thread, and Ed Good's subsequent request, is what prompted the Preacher to start this Thread.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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Originally Posted by mc
Edd don't be so hard on your self I'm sure your lost most days when you wake up

mc, you did not spell Ed's name correctly.

You did not spell "yourself" correctly. It should be all one word.

You forgot to use simple punctuation such as commas or periods again.

When you wrote "I'm sure your lost...", it should have been "YOU'RE".

In short... people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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well, watt bout freedom o ex pression...don dat count fur nuttin no mo...

bad nough, we gotta deal wid traffic lights an con dums...

now we got udders tellin us how we gotta spell an right...

purdy soon day gonna be tellin us watt to think...

unt unt ah...no way...

Last edited by ed good; 05/30/22 01:14 PM.

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Keith you are an idiot get back to me when you correct edds "igorant" replys.after hearing your rants for a long time I don't think anyone except edd cares what you have to say you sir Are a turd in the punch bowl

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I found Bill's protocol from 2012, with additional discussion
http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7889&page=5
1. My gauge has a 5/16" hole in the "block", so I installed an eye bolt in the hole with the eye facing out.
2. I tied a generous loop of clothesline rope to the eye bolt with loops and knots to make holding on easier.
3. You need an assistant if measuring at a gun show or auction. The assistant needs no skill or strength.
4. The assistant will hold the barrels steady on a table with a cushion and the end to be measured over the edge. An assistant is to be preferred over a vise or weights, especially at a show or auction. No weight is heavy enough to hold the barrels steady.
5. The micrometer is zeroed with the rope holding one end horizontally and the ball supported at the other end by the fingers.
6. With the micrometer properly zeroed, the ball end is inserted into the barrel, run from the open end of the barrel to the extent of the rod and the results recorded. The rod must not contact the interior barrel wall for accurate results.
7. The assistant will rotate the barrels on the pad 90 degrees and the results recorded as in the previous instructions.
8. Another 90 degree rotation will complete the measurement of that end of that barrel. The fourth quadrant cannot be measured.
9. Do the same to the other barrel.
10. Reverse the direction of the barrels and do the same from the other end. This should result in 12 recorded minimum thickness measurements from one set of barrels.

I put 25# in the box in which I carry the gauge, and use bungie cords to affix the barrel. I can rotate the barrel while watching the gauge, but do need an assistant to record the results

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

And thank you dblgnfix for this post, which William apparently missed.
I make my own wall thickness gauge similar to the one Drew has in his post. I have verified its reading via other methods such as cross sectioning ultra sonic and eddy current. They all give the same reading within .0006" which wouldn't make the slightest difference.

And no, this thread is not about you William.

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The bottom line is repeatable results if this method of checking mwt offends you then cover your eyes

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Dr. Drew, thank you for posting my old post about how to use the Manson gauge in a horizontal position, either at a gun show or in your kitchen. If you read carefully, everything you need to know is in my post. Remember, it was taught to me by Jon Hosford, I didn't invent it. I was a machinist in training in my youth, but nowhere near as talented as Jon Hosford. It is about as simple a method for the use of the Manson gauge as you can find anywhere.

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