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#613850 04/14/22 10:48 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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I would like to know more about this set of powder and shot bags. Just how were they used, what period might they be from. They seem to be in fine condition.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by Daryl Hallquist; 04/14/22 10:52 AM.
Joined: Dec 2020
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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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The nozzles are Sykes patent. Also known as Irish pattern.

As they would hang nozzle down from the shoulder I suspect that they would leak if used with powder on one side.

I think that both sides were used with shot, either different sizes or to load both barrels together to avoid double charging one barrel of a side by side.

Used in British Isles until people gave up using muzzle loaders, and no doubt in the Empire and Colonies.

Any markings?

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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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I shoot a percussion muzzle loader a lot, and have a shot snake which works in much the same way as that system appears to. The bags are carried spots down(kind of like a sheep's udder). To load, you lift the gate which releases a set powder charge into the measure. The gate then shuts as you pull the measure and pour it down the barrel. Put in wadding, ram home, measure and pour shot the same way, top with an overshot card and ram home. The separate measures are usually considered to be "Irish type". The English type has the measure permanently attached to the snake or flask. There are advantages to both systems. With a snake I like the Irish system which does not require bringing the muzzle of the gun up to the snake, which is up against the shooter's body. This is especially un-nerving if the second barrel of the gun is charged. With a flask, the English Style is not a problem.

There are pretty good pictures of this equipment at the Track of the Wolf website (Shotgunners bags). Much of the equipment is made by "October Country", which also has a web site, and is right up your way.

Best of luck with it!

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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Selection of Sykes patent shot pouches.

One on left is modern repro. Second from left is snake type (minus shoulder strap).

Depressing thumb piece allows scoop to be withdrawn dropping shutter.

Right hand one has no shutter, relies on decanting into measure. Not Sykes patent.

Last edited by Parabola; 04/14/22 12:12 PM.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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I have not been able to find a date for the Sykes Patent. There may well be more than one as he seems to have tried to patent both the slanted scoop and shutter system that we are considering here and a fireproof powder flask shutter.

It certainly predates 1824 as on 1st January 1824 the Court of the Kings Bench gave Judgement in his son’s favour the case, Sykes v. Sykes, being reported at 107 ER 834. The son was the Plaintiff. It is unclear whether the Defendant was another relation but they shared the same surname.

The head note reads in part that the Plaintiff “made and sold for profit a large quantity of shot-belts, powder flasks, etc, which he was accustomed to mark with the words “Sykes Patent””.

This was a passing-off action for a Declaration in the Kings Bench rather that an action to enforce Patent rights.

The Plaintiff’s father had been granted a Patent, but it had subsequently been found to be invalid.

Last edited by Parabola; 04/16/22 05:39 AM. Reason: Corrected
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Thanks so much for the information you all have given. I have checked the bags thoroughly and find no markings at all on either the brass or the leather. The brass pieces appear identical. The scoops release like this. If you are holding the brass in your left hand, one turns the scoop less than a quarter turn clockwise with the right hand. This pushes the inside keeper spring out of the way. To reinsert the scoops, one just pushes the scoop back in and the keeper spring will snap. All of this is nicely made.

Can you tell me how the pouches were worn. A missing strap over the shoulder or ?? One bag has a buckle at each end, while the second has an "end of the belt" type strap.

Are you thinking this one might come from prior to 1824?

The metal work is nicely shaped and finished and seems to function as intended back in the day. The leather measures about 12" long, and the exposed brass measures about 2" long. With the scoop removed and looking inside, it appears that the closure inside, as designed, might leak a bit if it was used for powder. One bag has a few shot rolling inside.

Last edited by Daryl Hallquist; 04/16/22 09:21 AM.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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Yes, the shutter design needs a certain amount of clearance from the inside of the tube to allow the front edge of the scoop to slide under and lift the shutter on insertion.

Whilst tight enough to keep most sizes of shot in I don’t think it would work with powder.

In use a single strap like mine (if it still had a strap) would be slung bandolier fashion over one shoulder with the pouch dangling nozzle down between the opposite kidney and hip. Gravity aids the feed. The extra strap on yours would be used to connect to the waist belt if it was flapping around.

As to age, impossible to be exact without markings except by condition of the leather.


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