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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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and then there are low heat chemical processes, which produce simulated colors, without the risk of damaging the frame...



keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Sidelock
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Found this in The Baker Gun Quarterly, November 1904, “A General Description of the Baker Gun”. This might explain why the frames were not heat treated.
Frames – All our frames are forged from the best selected steel in our own factory, under hammers of 1,000 to 1,200 pounds weight, thoroughly refining the metal and insuring freedom from imperfections. They are accurately cut by machinery, fitted, polished and thoroughly ease-hardened, which produces fine colors and a hard wearing outside surface, while the texture of the inner portions remains tough and sufficiently elastic to withstand hard strain and shock.

It also appears that frame steels had a carbon content < .25% so could not be through hardened.

AISI 8620 (C .18 - .23%) is a chromium, molybdenum, nickel alloy steel often used for modern shotgun frames, and is easily carburized and machined when annealed.

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This continues to be an interesting convo. I will admit, I dont know Jack or Jill about steel composition, but it's interesting reading.

I guess I still want to go back to my last rhetorical question, which Keith already took the time to address.

"If one shoots in-spec loads, doesn't have an obstruction, cleans and cares for their 20ga Flues...should they have a rational belief that their gun has any higher possibility of failure than any other make/design of that day shooting the same ammo?"

If yes, the design is a failure. If no, then what are we harping on?

And possibly just as important...are there even ample enough examples of this, or other makes failing, for us to make a reasoned determination? Or separate out the human error (hot loads, obstrictions, etc) instances?

NDG

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a 16 gauge flues was my go to grouse gun for many years...shot one ounce field loads...never a problem with that gun...


now, as for the grouse, they would often give me a problem...mostly it was about their flight patterns...ah lotta ziggin an zaggin...rarely would they fly straight...

Last edited by ed good; 04/03/22 10:58 PM.

keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Case color HARDENING is a process by which carbon is added to a low carbon steel by heating the steel to a specific temperature while surrounded by carbon. In the case of firearms that carbon was provided by bone and charcoal. The colors are produced by the gases released when the steel is quenched in water. It is not considered a heat treating process because the steel is not hardened throughout, but only a few thousanths of an inch deep, typically .005 to .010 deep. Hence the term CASE hardening meaning it is only the outside casing of the steel. Another method of case hardening was done by using CYANIDE. This method would produce the type of finish seen on Delgreco restorations of Parkers or the type found on tools made by Starrett. In any case , case hardening is a way of providing a very hard outside surface to low carbon steel while keeping the inner mass malleable. It is done everyday all over the world as a manufacturing process. However as in any het treating process anything can go wrong if the process uis not followed correctly and the material is allowed to get too hot these things occur all the time in the manufacturing world and the results could be broken parts if they are allowed to get out of the plant instead of scrapped after the error was discovered

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