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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 506 Likes: 57
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 506 Likes: 57 |
while we here in the states do not have to follow the proof laws relative to selling old sxs guns, I suspect many would feel the value is effected by whether a gun is in proof or not. I own two classics, bought knowing they were out of proof but had the barrel walls checked and felt comfortable knowing I was only going to shoot light 7/8 oz loads in 12 ga guns proofed for 1 1/8 loads. In both cases I suspect my purchase price would have been substantially higher had they been in proof. I might add I consulted a few of my most knowledgeable friends regarding sending them back to England and have them reproofed and the answer was the same. "Why subject them to the stress ? Use them as intended and enjoy them. "
This ain't a dress rehearsal , Don't Let the Old Man IN
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2 members like this:
mc, Stanton Hillis |
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 666 Likes: 45
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 666 Likes: 45 |
while we here in the states do not have to follow the proof laws relative to selling old sxs guns, I suspect many would feel the value is effected by whether a gun is in proof or not. I own two classics, bought knowing they were out of proof but had the barrel walls checked and felt comfortable knowing I was only going to shoot light 7/8 oz loads in 12 ga guns proofed for 1 1/8 loads. In both cases I suspect my purchase price would have been substantially higher had they been in proof. I might add I consulted a few of my most knowledgeable friends regarding sending them back to England and have them reproofed and the answer was the same. "Why subject them to the stress ? Use them as intended and enjoy them. " Agree with all of this, particularly on valuation. Bought and sold a wildly out of proof but solid hammer gun for cheap, and would probably do it again under the same circumstances. However, now I am primarily interested in in-proof stuff only. Would rather be able to advertise it as such at time of sale.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718 Likes: 94
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718 Likes: 94 |
ted, regarding your reponses to my questions...thank you...a couple of questions...
are you saying saami max pressure of 11500psi exceeds current english proof specs? if so, by how much for each gauge?
are you saying that our commercial target loads, typically going out at around 1200 fps, could generate 11500 max psi?
keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,711 Likes: 730
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,711 Likes: 730 |
ed, Current English proof specs are higher than what was typically applied to older English guns. A few brands of guns from yore are gaining a reputation for failure at reproof, Coggies, among others, are in the group. But, and this is important, that failure is mostly the result of pushing the gun to a level of proof it wasn’t designed for, AND DOESN'T NEED. Just use or load the right damn ammunition. US Promo loads are some of the worst offenders. Quite a few of them hit over 10,000 psi, OK for your 1100 that hasn’t been cleaned this year. But, we don’t know what we don’t know, ed, and if you don’t have information demonstrating otherwise, it is better to assume your American 2 3/4” ammo is too hot for your vintage English gun. The boxes of American ammunition printed with the symbol for CIP certification is a fairly recent development, likely related to manufacturers selling US loaded ammunition in Europe. For what it is worth, the French gun makers I hung out with, and drank too much at the evening meal with, were pretty much unconcerned with pressure from modern loads, but, were emphatic that an obstructed bore was a whole different deal.
Best, Ted
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718 Likes: 94
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718 Likes: 94 |
keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,109 Likes: 91
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,109 Likes: 91 |
Also, I would not use promo or other “hot” loads in original 2.5” chambered guns that have been reproofed for 2.75”. Just because the chamber will accommodate the shell doesn’t mean all 2.75” loads should’ve used. For me intended pressures are unchanged from original proof. Lengthened chambers don’t change that. I hear all the time that modern ammo (and the associated pressures implied) can be used if the gun has been reproofed with lengthened chambers. I don’t buy that.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,733 Likes: 96
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,733 Likes: 96 |
As to cost of Proof. The real cost is in the preparation for Proof in that the action must be tight and the barrels free from dents, bulges or pits and is what the Gunsmith charges and what has to be done. Very often only the action and barrels are sent minus the stock and forend. This is the initial View stage. On calling at the Proof House the gun is passed through the doors and visually checked; hence 'View'. If it passes this initial examination is is taken away. If it fails it's handed straight back with reason it has failed this stage and there is a small fee to pay at that point. It can be Proof tested while-u-wait or more usually collected the following week. Cost was a little over £20 per barrel or double that if done on the day. Interesting place to visit and small parties can be taken around by prior arrangement. Anyone with a copy of Greener's 'Gun & its Development' can look at the illustrations there and virtually nothing has changed to this day. Lagopus.....
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718 Likes: 94
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718 Likes: 94 |
keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718 Likes: 94
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718 Likes: 94 |
im think in to jes fur git the hole thang...
and contin ya to re lye on mah old eye an old ed's 90-30 guide lines...
Last edited by ed good; 03/30/22 11:35 AM.
keep it simple and keep it safe...
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