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#608473 12/27/21 07:29 PM
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ithaca1 Offline OP
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I have a 25" 28ga that is a bit light up front. I played around with different weights at different points on the barrel and found that adding 3oz in the right place feels much better and the gun will still only weigh 5lbs 4oz. I removed the keels and the rib is hollow. I can drop a 5/32 dia drill all the way to the forend lug. 18" of 5/32 copper tungsten weights 2.88 oz. which is Just about perfect. What would be the best way to secure the tungsten in the channel? Copper tungsten doesnt accept solder, so thats out.
Thoughts??

Best,
Bill


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Bill, what make gun is it? Knowing if the bottom rib is soft soldered or brazed on might offer a solution. Does the stock have a butt plate or a pad? Depending on the wood a 1" diameter hole an inch deep will be about an ounce. Weight inletted into the fore end would be easier, but would require a greater weight as it is closer to the center of the gun. Sounds like a nice toy, hope you can find a solution. Mark Robson

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ithaca1 Offline OP
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Hi Mark,
Thanks for the reply!
It is a Dickinson estate. I had the barrels shortened to 25" and recut for chokes. It is actually to lively! Never thought I would say that. Im trying to get it close to my 25" WC Scott 28ga and use the Dickinson with factory ammo for skeet/sporting clays as a practice gun. The Scott is my hunter.

The Dickinson has a through bolt and checkered butt.
Dimensions are very close between the 2 guns.

The Scott weighs 5lbs 9oz so I have room to add weigh on the Dickinson. With the 3oz, 9-10 inches back from the muzzle, the 2 guns feel similar, even with the Dickinson a few oz lighter. I thought about weight in the forend but not sure if I can get enough weight there.

I shoot the Scott very well. The Dickinson, not so much.

My first thought was to drop the Tungsten down inside the hollow rib and use a syringe to inject acraglass or something similar around the tungsten to secure it. There is a .090 hole in the bottom rib, right in front of the forend lug, so air would be able to escape as the adhesive was injected. My concern was that if I ever needed rib repair, the adhesive may be a nightmare.
Just not sure if this is the best solution.

I never thought that such subtle changes could make such a big difference.
Any help would be appreciated.
Bill

Last edited by ithaca1; 12/28/21 02:07 PM.

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Originally Posted by ithaca1
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the reply!
It is a Dickinson estate. I had the barrels shortened to 25" and recut for chokes. It is actually to lively! Never thought I would say that. Im trying to get it close to my 25" WC Scott 28ga and use the Dickinson with factory ammo for skeet/sporting clays as a practice gun. The Scott is my hunter.

The Dickinson has a through bolt and checkered butt.
Dimensions are very close between the 2 guns.

The Scott weighs 5lbs 9oz so I have room to add weigh on the Dickinson. With the 3oz, 9-10 inches back from the muzzle, the 2 guns feel similar, even with the Dickinson a few oz lighter. I thought about weight in the forend but not sure if I can get enough weight there.

I shoot the Scott very well. The Dickinson, not so much.

My first thought was to drop the Tungsten down inside the hollow rib and use a syringe to inject acraglass or something similar around the tungsten to secure it. There is a .090 hole in the bottom rib, right in front of the forend lug, so air would be able to escape as the adhesive was injected. My concern was that if I ever needed rib repair, the adhesive may be a nightmare.
Just not sure if this is the best solution.

I never thought that such subtle changes could make such a big difference.
Any help would be appreciated.
Bill

What if you poured wax in there? Probably would not hold it after a long time, but you could heat it up gently to remelt. It wouldn't rattle.

You could also stuff various foam plugs in there. I would electrical tape the wire first - as large as you can do it and still get in town there.

Probable better solutions (set screw through the rib?), but wax or foam with tape seem easy and won't give you headaches down the road.


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Would using a low melt casting alloy like Cerrosafe (there are others) down in betw the ribs help?
They melt at temps below that of 200F. They are heavy like lead.
When cooled off from the casting procedure and given a certain amt of time (1hr IIRC) the casting returns to full size in the cavity (no shrinkage). So it won't be loose and shaking around in there with use.

Warming the bbl set before pouring makes them fill nicely. Just like casting bullets but at 200F or a bit less.

They weight about the same as lead and the exact weight is available with some search.

If you had a loose rib issue, the Cerrosafe or other low temp weight metal could first be removed before making repairs by simply placing the bbls muzzle down and reheating the
bbl's up to around 200F again.
It will melt and flow out especially with that small rib hole upstream at the forend hook.

You can even place them in a boiling water tank and it'll melt and run out.,,that's how I generally 'melt out' a cast done with the stuff.
Let the water cool and the metal hardens and is reuseable,,but that's not the primary concern here.

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ithaca1 Offline OP
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Kutter,
Good evening.
THATS a great idea!!!
Much better than an epoxy base adhesive.
Thank you.

Best,
Bill


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I appreciate all the input.


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I like the set screw idea. No liquid mess and easy to reverse. Maybe more than one screw.

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Once again, Kutter has come up with a great solution. It doesn't sound as if he has actually done this, but his idea suggests that a great deal of thought, reason, and intelligence went into it. I was going to suggest feeding lengths of thin electrical solder down the rib void from the front, and gently tamping it into place with a piece of steel rod so it would remain stationary. I like the Cerrosafe idea better.

Cerrosafe has nearly the same density as lead or solder, so it can easily provide the desired weight. It has a low enough melting point that it will not damage the rib solder joints. It has a high enough melting point that it will not interfere with any future rust bluing of the barrels. It is stable, and it is easily reversible.

At the other extreme end of the spectrum are these suggestions that should be avoided at all costs, in my opinion:

Originally Posted by BrentD
What if you poured wax in there? Probably would not hold it after a long time, but you could heat it up gently to remelt. It wouldn't rattle.

You could also stuff various foam plugs in there. I would electrical tape the wire first - as large as you can do it and still get in town there.

Probable better solutions (set screw through the rib?), but wax or foam with tape seem easy and won't give you headaches down the road.

Wax does not have anywhere near the density of Cerrosafe. The melting point of wax is well below the temperature of a rust bluing boiling tank, so it would create all sorts of headaches if someone ever attempted to reblue the barrels. Wax would likely even melt if the gun was left in a hot vehicle for a short period, and might even run out of any small void in the rib solder joints. That could damage the lining of a nice gun case. Not much thought went into this idea. This is the sort of "fix" that this forum was intended to help amateur gunsmiths avoid at all costs.

I just don't know what to think about the second suggestion of stuffing "various foam plugs in there".

What...??? like foam ear plugs, or maybe foam insulation backing rod, or what??? Neither has anywhere near the density of Cerrosafe, or even wax. 50 feet of foam backer rod MIGHT weight 3 ounces... or not. That's going to be a problem to stuff into the rib cavity of 25" barrels. Not worth even thinking about the pitfalls and future negative ramifications of this idea.

I'm also not sure what is meant by "electrical tape the wire first - as large as you can do it and still get in town there"... At this point, I don't think I even want to know.

When Dave Weber added this gunsmithing sub-forum, he asked us to "contribute answers when you can." Kutter has consistently shown us his ability to do that, with obvious experience, time proven solutions, and intelligent suggestions. It is up to us to read through all suggestions given to various gunsmithing questions, and decide which will fix our guns, and which are mere bodgering that will do more harm than good.


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Originally Posted by keith
When Dave Weber added this gunsmithing sub-forum, he asked us to "contribute answers when you can." Kutter has consistently shown us his ability to do that, with obvious experience, time proven solutions, and intelligent suggestions. It is up to us to read through all suggestions given to various gunsmithing questions, and decide which will fix our guns, and which are mere bodgering that will do more harm than good.

Well said.

Thanks once again, Kutter, for providing excellent guidance to solve a gun related problem.


May God bless America and those who defend her.
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