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My good friend Stan and I agree that a multitude of guns is the preferred method for successful shotgunning, but, in the absence of a bunch of guns, hand position on the forearm is another way to change the balance of your gun. Neither Stan or I need Ed's assistance in adding to our stash of shotguns.

1 member likes this: Stanton Hillis
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Originally Posted by ed good
...what you really need is about a dozen different gons

Why should we cut back?


"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
1 member likes this: Stanton Hillis
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Yes, the position of the hands is important, it is through the hands that feel is transferred to the body.

What Powell is apparently implying is that the right hand has a role in the perception of feel and gun types that put the gripping hand (right hand for right handers) a little further back improve the feel. By contrast gun designs that have the right hand closer to the action body give a less lively feel. Action types with lock work behind the action body, ie sidelocks, trigger plate locks, sliding breeches, by necessity put the triggers and the gripping hand a little further back.

I will add a personal observation: boxlocks with a longer rearward placement of the triggers, seem to handle a little better than boxlocks with the triggers closer to the action. Compare a Westley Richards boxlock double trigger with one with a single trigger for instance.

The problem is to get one of each of the above types of actions in the same place at the same time and compare. I have handled them all, but one at a time. If there is a lucky soul that has one of each they can compare and tell us.

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Except that the right hand really can't 'go' back. Pull length is determined by the geometry of the shooter within reason. What would seem to occur with weight spread out as you describe would be the action mass going forward. = deader gun, not livlier.


"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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You can explain it to people ......... but you can't understand it for them.


"With one foot in the grave ..........and one foot on the pedal, I was born a Rebel" T.P.
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I'd disagree with Mr. Powell as I have found SLE and BLE balance points over quite a wide range and with general overlap. Not definitive, but indicative, data shows shooters can generally , after some "calibration" and sensitivity training, detect 1/4" change in point of balance.

Remember that shooters are each unique in size, strength, muscle reaction speed, hand-eye coordination, and a bunch of psychological factors.

The four handling factors must be separated for the shooter to understand the gun. Interested shooters need a weigh scale and a balance fulcrum to get started. Knowing weight and balance, you can concentrate on unmounted swing and mounted swing separately. It is not helpful to try to understand/feel the four factors all at the same time.

Weight tells you the amount of physical effort expended in lifting, holding, and carrying the gun. Balance, along with hand placement, tells you the % of weight in each hand. Note that the closer the hand center is to the balance point the more of the weight it will hold. Ever see a guy pick up an unfamiliar gun and slide his forward hand back and forth trying to get comfortable with the gun? This little exercise tells you that the gun's balance point does not suit him. He will place his hands in his "natural" locations and, not being comfortable with the feel, start trying to correct by repositioning his front hand.

Swing efforts tell you the effort you will expend to point the gun in a different direction. The unmounted gun will naturally wish to swing about the balance point unless extra effort is expended to force it to swing about a different point. Unmounted swing is considerably less than mounted. Why? Because mounted forces the gun to swing about the axis represented by the shooter's spine. We can estimate this factor (normalize it to remove the shooter's influence) by calculating the swing effort about the gun's butt.

DDA

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I will add to shotgunlover’s statement regarding round action lockwork mass being farther back in the stock,which is absolutely correct. Note also that the mass is lower in the action as well and feels, to me, “racy” in the hand. The closest analogue would be a race car with the engine placed as low as possible in the engine bay to improve handling.


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"Except that the right hand really can't 'go' back."

The hand goes back when moving from front to rear trigger in double trigger guns. It is permanently positioned a little further back in single trigger guns. In the Westley Richards single triggers the trigger is at about the same spot as the rear trigger of a double trigger model. These details affect both stock length and the placement of the left hand on the forend. Stock makers presumably take these details into account in bespoke guns.

Rocketman's comment "Balance, along with hand placement, tells you the % of weight in each hand." is probably what Powell is trying to say.

Last edited by Shotgunlover; 10/12/21 05:20 AM.
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lets go back to box one here...

"What makes a shotgun perfectly balanced? Is it in the eye of the holder? What feels perfectly balanced to me may not for you? How can you pick up a gun at the Southern and say, wow, this feels great. Then pick up dozens of other shotguns , best guns, and none have the same feel. Wouldn't you expect a Boss or Purdey to have the same feel or is it all just individual?"

consider...that choosing a new shotgun, is similar to choosing a new woman...the first thing that catches your attention, is phyical appearance...shes gotta be ah looker, or you just pass her by...next you get ah little closer an see how she feels...at this point, you either fall in love or walk away...

Last edited by ed good; 10/12/21 08:16 AM.

"Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem." Ronald Reagan, 1981...
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Eddie, what in the Blue Bonnet Blazes does sex appeal have to do with how a shotgun feels and handles when mounted--?? It is what comes out the muzzle end when you pull the trigger that counts. I can move by left hand slightly to compensate for the "balance feel" when I go from 1 12 gauge Model 12 to another in my "working collection"-- Ditto with my side-by-sides- a smattering of 12 gauge L.C. Smiths, with one Fox Sterlingworth 20 gauge, and a field grade M21 in 12 gauge. Being a serious varmint shooter and target pistol fellow, trigger pull on a shotgun, no matter the configuration and design, is my "key" to good wingshooting, right along with gun fit. RWTF


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