January
S M T W T F S
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30 31
Who's Online Now
1 members (redoak), 86 guests, and 4 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics36,576
Posts513,556
Members14,125
Most Online462
Aug 5th, 2016
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,293
Likes: 54
Lloyd3 Online Content OP
Sidelock
**
OP Online Content
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,293
Likes: 54
I've never really noticed this on any of my 12-bores before but... on sub-gauge guns I occasionally center a bird and it still flies off. I've had it happen twice today and once yesterday. In the past I somewhat blamed the ammo (7/8 ounce 16-bore loads) but these were 1-ounce RSTs. Today was a fairly blatant example where everything around the bird was clearly impacted and it escaped anyway, seemingly unscathed, with not a feather out of place (at least none I could later find). Ruffed grouse are exceedingly thin-skinned creatures in my experience and don't normally require a very hard hit to be taken, so I can't really explain it adequately to myself. I closely examined my normally-lethal Brummie 16 tonight for any visual clues as to what might be happening and then scrubbed the bejesus out of the tubes on my weapon. I will head out again tomorrow but....my faith is a bit shaken. If I hadn't already bagged several birds I would be even more concerned but...

Last edited by Lloyd3; 09/30/21 09:10 PM.
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,828
Likes: 41
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,828
Likes: 41
I think grouse are a bit tougher than many folks really believe. Unless they just get hammered, you have to break a wing. It has little to do with ‘dirty’ barrels imho.


Socialism is almost the worst.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,690
Likes: 86
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,690
Likes: 86
It happens. I doubt a dirty barrel changes a pattern much, but, felt wads compared to the plastic version of same sure the hell does. I remember Zutz giving recipes in books he wrote for loads to tighten or loosen patterns, but, I’ve only played with factory ammunition, and the promo stuff, in 12 gauge, all seems to pattern more densely then my chokes seem to be marked. My variety on the little gauges isn’t varied enough to make the call.

Remember, we call it “hunting” and not “killing”.

Best,
Ted

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,698
Likes: 150
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,698
Likes: 150
I agree with the above and would add that it's very easy to misread where your pattern went, by what you see as impact on the ground, in tree leaves, or on the water. I'm not saying you are wrong about having the bird in the center of your pattern, but at least accept that it is possible that you misread it, and that you didn't. Have you patterned the gun with these loads? And, maybe more importantly, have you shot the gun on a plate or large paper to "register" point of aim with point of impact?

All my patterning I've ever done has been with a dirty barrel, at least after the first shot. And, I've never seen one smidgen of difference.

One ounce of shot inside of 30 yards, with the bird centered in the pattern, should be a dead bird, regardless the gauge, if the shot size is sufficient and you're not getting blown patterns for some reason..


Drinking from my saucer, 'cause my cup has overflowed .......
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,293
Likes: 54
Lloyd3 Online Content OP
Sidelock
**
OP Online Content
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,293
Likes: 54
Ted: I tell myself that too. It's been a few years since I went through Zutz's book (always felt badly for his wife, driving that car) but I don't doubt the differences that plastic shot cups make over felt wads (I still have a few felt wad 20-gauge loads laying around in my gunroom and I eye them with some suspicion). If these RSTs were felt, I'd clearly try to blame them for this situation, but these are premium loads with modern shot cups. Unless RST has had a hiccup in their system at some time, I'm at a loss to explain this.

I have seen this happen to others, but I've never had this happen to me with a 12, only subgauge guns. Not hard to figure out why 12s are so successful. I had a 20 a few years ago that did this to me way too-often and I basically gave up on the gauge. 12s just do the job, day in and day out, so when you try to go away from that more lethal (but clearly more heavy) gauge you have a trade-off in lethality. 16s, with their 1-ounce loads seemed to be the best option for my needs and I've never doubted them...until lately.

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 815
Likes: 3
eeb Offline
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 815
Likes: 3
Maybe you just missed

1 member likes this: Ghostrider
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,293
Likes: 54
Lloyd3 Online Content OP
Sidelock
**
OP Online Content
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,293
Likes: 54
Stan: I have patterned this gun with these loads and was nothing but impressed. I'll pattern it again to confirm that fact (& for my own peace of mind). You're all right in that I have likely mis-read what I saw and have somehow missed what I was shooting at. I have been switching back and forth between this English gun and my little Turkish 28, so that may be playing into this. The English gun has much more lead built into it.

Last edited by Lloyd3; 10/01/21 05:55 AM.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,946
Likes: 59
Sidelock
**
Online Content
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,946
Likes: 59
Some days the gun just has a bad day. It’s not you, the shooter, but the gun itself which suddenly fails to operate correctly as if it forgets how to form a perfect pattern. Your gun just had one of those days. Give it another chance to do better today. Give it a good talking to and try to encourage it to have a nice day. wink

Last edited by KY Jon; 10/01/21 07:25 AM.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 916
Likes: 5
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 916
Likes: 5
Originally Posted by Lloyd3
I have been switching back and forth between this English gun and my little Turkish 28, so that may be playing into this. The English gun has much more lead built into it.

Out it comes. Happens to me too frequently.

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 526
Likes: 5
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 526
Likes: 5
The late Ken Eyster who did a lot of custom choke & pattern regulation work for competition shooters would only evaluate patterns shot from well fouled barrels & felt that unfouled bbls
didn't produce optimum patterns.

I don't know if he was correct on this & any of my guns( hunting or competition) w/unchromed bbls always get the bbls wiped out at the end of the day.

For what it's worth, I have more "mystery misses" on grouse than any other bird so now I can add clean bbs to my list of excuses after the dog looks up at me in disgust.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2021 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.049s Queries: 36 (0.018s) Memory: 0.8453 MB (Peak: 1.8992 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2022-01-25 05:12:05 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS