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Aug 5th, 2016
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Nitrah Offline OP
Sidelock
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Sidelock

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it is a double trigger gun from 1905, so it wouldn't surprise me the wood has shrunk slightly. I knew the screws need to be tight to avoid stock cracks and thought the shim method sounded good, as it solves the timing issue and tightness, but wanted to hear others opinions. Thanks.


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Sidelock
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Tamid, do you use a release compound on the screws?


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The clearances of the Lard designed HOT with the selector are an very close fit into the stock head. So snug that the main reason the HOT has a non-automatic top safety- no safe room for the pin that actuates the movement of the automatic safety when the gun is broken open. I had Brad Bachelder convert my 1933 era Ideal 12 LONGRANGE for the HOT back to the double triggers and automatic top safety I prefer- he also glass bedded the stock head. Very little chance of that "Elsie" doubling--and I only shoot 2&3/4" loads in it- superb turkey gun indeed.. RWTF


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Originally Posted by Joe Wood
I would suggest removing the screw and after cleaning the threads apply some blue Locktite to the threads and replace, tightening to where it is clocked. The blue Locktite is not permanent so the screw can be removed. I have little faith in the shim method. Under the head it might raise the screw enough to interfere with the closing of the top lever.

Think about this bad advice...

The screw will look good being timed, but it won't be properly tightened. Loose stock screws permit the action to move under recoil. And eventually the wood cracks or splits.

The thin wood shim is a good solution for starters. And glass bedding may be advisable if things are really loose, or cracking of the wood has already started. But if having the screw slot timed perfectly under the top lever is important, it may take some trial and error for the proper shim thickness to get you there.


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Originally Posted by LeFusil
Originally Posted by Stanton Hillis
Does the gun have double triggers, or single? If a single, be very careful not to over tighten the screw, also (I believe) sometimes referred to as the hand pin.

I second the use of blue Loctite. Don't use the red anyplace you can't apply heat to get it to release.

The hand pin is the pin that threads upward from the trigger plate into the rear of top tang. The hand pin head is usually hidden underneath the trigger guard tang, the end of the pin is filed flush with the top tang.

All of those pins should be tight. Those are the pins that hold your stock onto the gun. Loose breech and hand pins equal cracked stocks. I’ve never dealt with LC Smiths with HOT, so I don’t know about those, seems odd that you can’t tighten a pin down because it interferes with the operation of a trigger. What a quirk.

Thanks for the correction, Dustin. I admit to not using British gun making terminology enough to keep the names of various screws straight in my head.

HOTs can be very temperamental about how tight those screws are. I own two and have never had the first problem with either but do know of their tendencies to screw up when messed with by the untrained, or when certain screws are overtightened.


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If it is just a little out of time you can use this method. Get some round stock the size of the screw head or a bit smaller. Measure the hole in the tang and turn a pilot that will fit the hole snug on the end of the round stock. Where the pilot meets the head diameter should be angled slightly like a counter sink, as in just a few degrees. You now have a punch. Lay the top of the tang on a substantial flat steel surface with a thin piece of lead between the tang and the steel. The lead will protect the finish and engraving. Have someone hold it on the steel backer and wack the inlet side of the hole with your punch. Start out light and try it for fit. If it is not enough a little more force on the hammer. You are trying to push the bottom of the hole up into the counter bore of the screw head and this will allow you to tighten the screw and time it and keep the wood to metal fit tight under the tang. The small amount to be pushed up should not affect how high the screw head sticks up above the tang surface that much. I've done this on out of time lock plate screws and bottom plate screws. How successful you are with this will depend on where the screw is making contact on the bottom of the hole.

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And if the case hardened tang breaks you are truly screwed I would tighten the screw and forget about it. it is lose from shrinking wood repair the problem don't make another one

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Before we go any further, was the screw tight when it was clocked?

Last edited by Joe Wood; 09/02/21 10:01 PM.

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Originally Posted by builder
Tamid, do you use a release compound on the screws?

Absolutely, its a must. For fine work I use the release with the kit and for an action I coat it with floor wax.


Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
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