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Aug 5th, 2016
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Sidelock
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well stan, of course you are right and i am wrong...as hit is awl ways thus...


the selling season is here...selective consignments accepted...pm for terms...
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Sidelock
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It is also well documented that turn-of-the-century shells generated the same or even greater pressures than today's standard loads
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F2sQuPm05IE4VWYYnCkvuXmYEzQoWd_SQgaAfUOZEFU/preview

ed - if you have evidence to the contrary please post it.

And from a comment in Sporting Guns and Gunpowders regarding an additional study after the 1891 Proof House Trial Report, and published in The Field June 6, 1891 by Horatio F. Phillips, a “staff experimenter” with The Field. This is in reference to the standard tubes used in the Trial which had no chambers cut and a greater wall thickness than finished barrels
“These experiments serve to show what a very large margin of strength there is in a good gun barrel, when ordinary charges are used. The (Damascus) barrels which gave way earliest…had withstood the strains of…about four times as great as the regulation proof; while the steel barrels (Siemens-Martin and English “Superior Barrel Steel”) were tested…with charges averaging nearly five times as much as the ordinary proof-charge.”

It has also been well documented that the "rough forged tubes" were first proved in Belgium, and the finished guns were proved by the U.S. makers in-house.
Belgian First Obligatory Proof Load for “Double-Barreled Breech-Loading Sporting Guns” 12g breech plugged tubes was 11.8 Drams powder and 1.12 oz. shot

Ithaca advertisements stated that barrels were proved with a “double charge of powder and 1 1/2 times the normal shot load”; or (possibly) 6 1/2 Drams Black Powder with 1 2/3 oz. of shot if the standard load was 1 1/8 oz. shot and 3 1/4 Dram Eq. Bulk Smokeless.

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evidence to the contrary of what? i take no issue with what you say here...

Last edited by ed good; 07/23/21 02:58 PM.

the selling season is here...selective consignments accepted...pm for terms...
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Doc once again my hats off to you for your dedication to researching all of this information and providing it to us.
JOB WELL DONE.

Last edited by Ghostrider; 07/28/21 12:22 AM.
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As always, Doc Drew . . . very interesting and very useful information. Thanks!

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Drew, I hope some day that you will compile all the info you have learned in a book. I would certainly buy it. It would also be interesting to know the compositions of the various makers frames. Some frames exposed to sweaty dirty hands for ages lose their case colors and take on a silvery appearance like Fox guns. Others such as the Remington 1894 tend to get etched thru the case hardening producing zillions of minute pits. This has been my observation and I wonder what the difference is in the steel composition. I also find it very interesting that the lowly Crescent had the same steel tubes as more expensive guns. I always suspected that the Crescent wasn't all that bad a gun. It just lacked the better fitting of the other guns and the machining was not quite as precision. Design wise they probably had the most simple cocking design on the hammerless guns.

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Tanky: I have 5 frame analyses at the bottom here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dnRLZgcuHfx7uFOHvHCUGnGFiLiset-DTTEK8OtPYVA/edit

July 1, 1920 "American Machinist" published an Ordnance Salvage Board Surplus Property Sale of almost 75,000 pounds of “Spec. Shape Gun Steel” from the A.H. Fox Gun Co. with C .15-.25%, Mn .5-.7%, S & P < .06% = AISI 1020
https://books.google.com/books?id=ezRMAQAAIAAJ&pg=RA1-PA409&lpg

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