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Joined: Jun 2020
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campero Offline OP
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Sidelock

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Ted, Richland company would import shotguns manufactured by Zabala Hermanos. Of all the national gun industry, they made the simplest and cheapest shotguns. If someone wanted a side by side for hunting, they could have it at a very low price. Besides, Spanish SxS shotgun market had and have well made and resistant guns up to the best shotguns at lower prices than in other countries. That is why so many Spanish shotguns have been imported from other countries.

Back to the thread, the system of my shotgun and yours isn't Greener cross bolt. It has no name?


28 ga, hammerguns and all shotguns and rifles made by hands.
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Actually, Richland Imported arms built by several different Italian and several different Spanish makers. I have observed that the Italian guns are uniformly good quality, and the Spanish guns were built to a lower price point. The Spaniards didn’t pick the price point, they simply supplied a gun to fulfill it.

Crummy guns, sadly. The truth hurts sometimes.

In the Richland catalog I have, period to the year of the gun, the fastener is referred to as a “Hidden Fourth fastener”. This provides an excellent example of the notion that you should take ad copy from a gunmakers catalog with a grain of salt, as there are not four fasteners on this gun. It would seem that the copy writers of most technical products, get things wrong occasionally, in their writing.

As to the actual, trade excepted name, that fits this type of bolting, I haven’t a clue. “Hidden Greener bolt” would seem to fit all the parameters, and differentiate between a visible Greener bolt, while giving credit as to who came up with a bolt through an extension of the barrels, at the top, with the familiar activation by the lever work.

That’s all I’ve got. I still can’t tell you with good certainty if there is a cap over the hole in the left side of the detonation of my gun, or, not.

Best,
Ted

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I’ve got a gun as you describe. It’s a very old Stephen Grant SLE. It has a round cross-bolt that does not stick out the left side fence but does go through a superiorly placed top rib extension that has a round hole to accept the cross-bolt. There is a plug there on the left lateral/superior fence, however, that I can detect. There is also a very small screw on the left breech face, again lateral and somewhat superior (i wonder if the screw goes in a slot in the cross-bolt to keep the bolt aligned, or is it for dismantling the cross-bolt….I have no idea??). I don’t think this is called a ‘concealed’ extension per se, though. In my books, that’s what they call a Purdey 3rd bite which is completely hidden (i.e, Burrard). I’ve looked in all my books and find no mention of what we have. I’m thinking it is unamed, but don’t know for sure?? Maybe our English gunsmith friends will pipe in and enlighten us?


Socialism is almost the worst.
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I always like to refer to the Purdey hidden fastener, the version centered between the firing pins as a “Purdey nose”, just to see the reactions in the room.

When well fitted, it was a clever idea.

Best,
Ted

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I too would say >>concealed / hidden 3rd fastener<< or maybe a >>hidden Greener Crossbolt<< variant. I fancy the term >>Purdey Nose<< as well as >>Galand Nose<< or „Fermeture Liègeoise“. All these terms should net some info upon a search with our little database.



Serbus,

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>>Triple(Verrou) Fermeture Syst�me Greener

Triple(Verrou) Fermeture Syst�me Purdey

Triple fermeture � h�lice tres robuste

etc.

But what I am looking for is a diagram of:

Triple(Verrou) Fermeture Syst�me Li�geoise or Fermeture Li�geoise<<

Some of our terms / letters / characters were bastardized on this recent thread:
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...rds=Fermeture&Search=true#Post570380

Serbus,

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I hate the Greener cross bolt. I don't think it is necessary on a shotgun. That being said I will agree that is a very strong lock up, best used on rifles. My problem with it is most are pretty sharp and pointed and if you had a mishap with an open gun you could be cut or gouged by that bolt sticking out. It will draw blood! It cold also be damaged with an open gun fall and could raise a burr that could prevent the gun from closing all the way. The hidden one that you guys are discussing here is infinitely more desirable to me. But a nice high end Francotte with a Greener cross bolt would not be a deal breaker to me. You have to make some exceptions sometimes!

Last edited by tanky; 07/27/21 10:15 PM.
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Originally Posted by tanky
My problem with it is most are pretty sharp and pointed and if you had a mishap with an open gun you could be cut or gouged by that bolt sticking out. It will draw blood! It cold also be damaged with an open gun fall and could raise a burr that could prevent the gun from closing all the way.

You must have fascinating nightmares.


"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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Never have seen one that was pointed.

Not saying it didn’t happen. Betting not, however.


Best,
Ted

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The way they are machined around the fence so they fit flush leaves a wedge shape. I didn't get my opinion from pictures, it comes from handling them. And since I worked with steel my hole life I know what can happen. I have seen some that where rounded where they protrude so those are not a problem.

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