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Aug 5th, 2016
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Bill,
Most of our vendors in Asia use the LC as the collateral to finance their manufacturing.

They don’t offer terms.
I’m sure depending on the relationship, having third party’s guaranteeing payment may or not be necessary.

We were running 8-12 cans a month, all backed by lc’s.
As I’m sure you are aware, many of the smaller manufacturers rely on government financing to fund their export operations, so using LC’s benefits both sides.

45 days on the water is an interest cycle in transit.
I think some of our Thai and Malay suppliers had a subsidized 90 day loan from their gov’t, and if the merchandize didn’t clear customs and FDA by then they were doubly penalized.
No cash from me, huge interest and shipping costs on their end, and then finally, no FDA approval meant their product would be sold into the industrial market at about $.10 on the dollar.
The LC at least guaranteed payment if they cleared.

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If the world price of lead is over a dollar/pound, are you telling me that shot producers are only to be allowed $5 per bag for dropping, bagging, shipping and profit margin?
I think that you have an unrealistic view of the business of providing lead shot.

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Gentlemen
All I can do is report the facts as I saw them. When a friend and I imported several containers of shot a year I always watched the LME and $5 is right!
You are disregarding the world econmy, local wages and local goverments. no EPA, No OSHA, no unions. Our method for avoiding LC's was payment upon proof of on board shipping. This avoided the time lost on getting the LC , the time "mine" of getting an LC, it gave the supplier quicker payment Of course if you did not trust the supplier and the supplier thought that you were a cheating slease ball you needed some one holding a LC. I would also say if one or both don't have confidence in each other should you do business with each other.
\
bill

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Sidelock
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Really just standard practice in the glove and mask business.
Low margin commodity stuff.
It’s hard to collect from someone half a planet away.
I’m sure there are plenty of variants to it.

Medical devices aren’t quite the same as lead pellets.

Though Liaoning did offer frozen scallops and chromium ore along with radios and catheters. Every month they had cans of stuff to dispose of. Lol.

tw #599653 07/15/21 11:04 PM
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Sidelock
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Originally Posted by tw
US$ 50 for a 25# bag of West Coast© Magnum shot is the present rate here [DFW] from the distributor that supplies most of the gun clubs and numerous shops in the area. Lawrence is running the same. It was US$ 40.50 prior to the Wuhan virus shutdown(s). There was a recent period of several months where there was no shot available at all! Just prior to that, it was US$ 45, for a brief period. Transportation is a large part of the new cost(s). Was a time there was a tower here. Long gone now, a generations worth anyway. Two or more, for some members of our society.

It was $3/bag when I started reloading for myself in the early 60's or 100#s for $11. Ya got a buck off, when buying four bags.

209 sized shot shell primers have been an issue of late as have some wads and most powders and the new prices are.. attention getting, if you can find any. Just what it is.

Loaded target ammo has also been a large problem; still is in many places. All of it is trickling through and the prices have escalated. If you have no components or are nearing the end of whot you have on hand, it pays to check w/anyone you know that has stopped shooting and see if you can buy what they have left. Otherwise, its belly up to the bar and pay the new 'going rate'. Not shooting has never been a good option as long as you are able to do so. Just saying.

Pretty much nailed it, across the board. Get on I-35 head North to the other end from you and pretty much the same prices. I got lucky and seen the primer issue coming, been to this rodeo before, and picked up 10K Cheddite from BPI before the price increase. But down to 18 bags of shot. Not counting the bags of #9 that I use for ballast on speakers and the swing arm monitor. 9 is about worthless up here in the winter so don't load it. But if push comes to shove.... LOL

Kitco has had spot pricing for lead in the US I've been using them for decands. Just for chits and grins. ~18 years or so ago got stuck making an Intranet page for our team at work. Put the 30 day spot pricing for lead on the home page. Everyone asked what that was for and I told them never mind if I have to explain it to you then you wouldn't understand. Bag of lead was just starting to creep up over $9.99 and lots of people said if it hit $20 they would quit shooting. The ones still alive and in decent health are still shooting.

Transportation costs are through the roof. Shortage of drivers and have you purchased fuel lately?! Ouch. Agree #1 driver in cost is transportation.

The last year lead has spiked a lot, like all raw materials.

[Linked Image from kitconet.com]

However it is not as high as it has been in the past looking at the 5 year average

[Linked Image from kitconet.com]

Mayco Industries now owns both West Coast and Lawrence, they are dropped from the same tower.

Remington is back up and running supposedly the tower is dropping shot 7x24. But they need to fill factory loads before they will be selling us any STS shot. Demand and supply has a lot to do with the price and supply is a bit short right now. I hope Vista doesn't screw this one up. Remington shot is the best I have ever used and can tell the difference with it. Should of, wish would of, purchased a pallet of it when I had the chance to. Never seen it get this bad before at least for everything including wads. Kevin at Downrange is cranking out as many wads as he can now that he can get plastic resin again. Eventually supply will catch up with demand and getting somewhat better in some things but IMO it is going to take a while yet. Fingers crossed that prices will come down and supply will hit a surplus soon. We can hope but I'm not betting on it.

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Good to hear about Downrange. I hope that means the DR-16 wad. It is the best.

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+1

Cold Iron #599793 07/19/21 12:09 PM
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Sidelock
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over the past few decades stateside industries have increasingly moved toward just-in-time inventorying practices....incorporating one of col. deming's japanese based "best practices" models....the issues with transportation are strongly linked to just-in-time....this thread is rich with examples of individuals who testify that they do not believe in just-in-time - pallets of shot, primers by the 10k lot, etc. the covid-19 pandemic is just one example of a crisis...they come in many flavors, but they all have one thing in common - they reveal the weak spots in your systems. covid has shown a bright light on the inherent weakness of the just-in-time supply chain concept....in the olden times a factory that had a "warehouse" had a built-in buffer that no longer exists when the production line is located immediately beside the truck receiving docks....imagine the advantage an ammunition maker would have had if they were able to make product long after their competitors had to shut down production - i wonder if this situation might cause industry to reconsider their devotion to just-in-time inventories.

if you think lead shot is high - just look at lumber prices. dimension lumber is a commodity naturally highly dependent on just-in-time practices. the chicago mercantile exchange spot for dimension lumber reached over $1.70 per board foot earlier this year...a trip to a lumber yard could induce a heart attack. in the past few weeks spot prices have "moderated" back to 50-60 cents pbf. covid has been similar to a gulf coast hurricane, in that it generated abnormal demands for some commodities - and, exactly like there ain't enough highways out of houston/new orleans/miami to handle the crush....there weren't enough common carriers to handle the increased demand. i don't worship at the market "shrine", but the market has adjusted to the short term demand spikes....and when they moderate, the prices will adjust back closer to the norm.

our current political atmosphere has deficit/inflation hawks sounding the alarm....but jerome powell and janet yellen are trying to explain that we are in a bubble of price increases that are more like this leadshot/lumber/hurricane model than like traditional inflationary situations. however, the cdc (and my step-daughter - who is a physicians assistant) are warning that we are heading back into more dangerous exposure to the new covid variant in the fall and winter....and if that is the case - this roller coaster ride is not over.

best regards,
tom


"it's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards."
lewis carroll, Alice in Wonderland
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