March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online Now
2 members (NZHunter, SKB), 296 guests, and 2 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,373
Posts543,977
Members14,389
Most Online1,131
Jan 21st, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 821
Likes: 34
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 821
Likes: 34
Love it!

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,190
Likes: 15
topgun Offline OP
Sidelock
***
OP Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,190
Likes: 15
Thanks for your suggestions Gentlemen. In regards to several of the comments below:

"Also best to find out why that happened before it's repaired" - As to the gun itself, I don't know the history of this gun except that it was owned by a California collector for the last 25-30 years; so have no idea as to what may have happened to cause the cracking; would be very interesting to find out. Also need to know if there is damage inside the frame that isn't visible from the outside..

"Is there more than one high grade shotgun with those specific cracks in circulation? I seem to recall seeing them previously." - Clearly this example hasn't been in circulation for at least 3 decades and I've no idea as to other maker's guns (except for Flues model Ithaca guns); but I've seen lots of Smith guns, and more than my share of high grades. This is the first Smith gun of any grade I've ever seen with this kind of frame damage. That observation noted, I've been told that Marlin had a number of Smith frames to crack early in the Marlin production era while they were experimenting with changing the hardening process from the old bone charcoal method to the less expensive cyanide process.

"My first question would be why did the cracks develop" - Mine too; and as the current set of Damascus barrels are not original to the gun (although they are graded A-1), my theory is that the original barrels were destroyed by an overloaded shell; the recoil being so intense that the barrels were slammed backwards with such force that the barrel lug damaged the frame at the back of lug cut. If so, that may also be the reason the original stock was destroyed?

At any rate this was one heck of a double gun when new, so if there was ever a wrecked gun worthy of restoration perhaps this is an excellent example; but also obviously expensive. The owner is aware of that fact but is determined to do it "right". Tom

1 member likes this: Hammergun
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,710
Likes: 729
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,710
Likes: 729
So, someone has their work cut out for them. Any idea who the engraver was? The dogs and bird would have me guessing Loy, but, it is just a guess.

Best,
Ted

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,978
Likes: 395
SKB Online Content
Sidelock
***
Online Content
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,978
Likes: 395
My guess, and it is nothing more than a guess with those pics and the brief story regarding the barrels, is that the replacement barrels were not fit up correctly. If not enough materieal was removed from either the hook or the rear portion of the lumps the resulting cracks could occur from attempting to force the barrels into place. As Mark suggested, look for the source of the problem and fix it before the cracks at the rear of the slot.

The cracks can be welded and the engraving can be recut, blending the finish will be a trick but can likely be done. The area of the repair is right where CC would be most prone to wear, take that into account as the finish is blended out.

Good luck and keep us up to date on this one, it is a worthy and interesting gun.


http://www.bertramandco.com/
Booking African hunts, firearms import services

Here for the meltdowns
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,190
Likes: 15
topgun Offline OP
Sidelock
***
OP Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,190
Likes: 15
"Any idea who the engraver was? The dogs and bird would have me guessing Loy, but, it is just a guess."
The gun is an early auto-ejector gun (Type I) with a three digit serial number that would date the gun to 1892. I believe Spangler was head of Hunter's engraving shop at that time; and since Albert Kraus didn't join the company until 1895, my guess would be the gun is Spangler engraved.

"My guess is.................the replacement barrels were not fit up correctly." Based on another pic I have showing the top of the frame, the replacement barrels were certainly not correctly fitted, as there is a gap between the standing breech and barrel breeches and the rib extension is too short and doesn't fit the frame cut (and they've also been shortened-the gun was originally shipped with 30" barrels). As Hunter's Type I auto-ejector are problematic, I've suggested to the owner that he find a later set of 30" OOE Grade barrels with Type II ejector iron and have those barrels fitted to his frame. It's not uncommon to find an A-1 Grade Smith gun with a factory fitted Type II ejector iron (have owned one myself); and I've seen two A-1 guns with a second factory fitted set of OO Grade barrels. Anyone who studies Smith guns is aware that Hunter Arms would install a lower grade set of barrels to a higher grade gun on customer request; and given that extra barrel sets were typically priced at 1/2 the cost of a given gun grade, customers often made such request to save a few bucks. That said, the current owner is dead set on keeping his A-1 barrels and having then correctly fitted.

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.054s Queries: 26 (0.034s) Memory: 0.8206 MB (Peak: 1.8988 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-03-28 09:23:30 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS