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Oops, I meant horizontally…….Duh…..being a pilot I can’t tell the difference between right side up or upside down….


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Originally Posted by Joe Wood
Oops, I meant horizontally…….Duh…..being a pilot I can’t tell the difference between right side up or upside down….

laugh


"With one foot in the grave ..........and one foot on the pedal, I was born a Rebel" T.P.
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https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/soldering-on

Something i wrote for dig on the subject, ive since used an aggressive wire wheel on the bench grinder to clean up old ribs and it works great if your careful. it will remove the majority of old soldier and and any undesirables.

This is my response from someone who has done a bit of it. Particularly to some points on the video which was largely OK in practice.

I wouldn't use quick clamps to clamp the ribs and its nothing to do with being a London trained gunsmith because i'm not, nor am i doing one a year nor ten a day nor taking a month do do it, its about doing the job properly so I'm not revisited by the bugger at the end of the season.

Its a job i regularly carry out inside of a day and would charge a day rate for.

The value or otherwise of the job is no excuse for poor work.. If i rush the job i might do it in five hours instead of giving myself 7-8 hours.. the difference is between a £150 bill and a £210 bill, to give you an idea of what £60 is worth here in the UK, its 83USD at the moment... which here in the UK would not fully fill my fuel tank, nor would it buy me a full weeks shopping.

If i take the time i know its going to be right and lasting the customers going to grumble because that's what customers like to do and the cost of any work almost always comes to a third of the value of an inexpensive gun.

Americans seem to think we all have family heirlooms, when the reality is most sportsmen have horrible modern things, with a small subset being wealthy or vein enough to own a best gun, most of us interested in older guns make do with something churned out by the trade many moons ago.

Many guns i have relaid ribs on have been worth less as a complete entity than the value of the job.

Ultimately its no excuse for second quality work, if i rush ill be doing the work over for free in years time,

Soldier is pulled into the joint by capillary action, if the joint is evenly close it helps the soldier flow through the joint and up the rib. If you wire up properly is aids sucess.

All soldier and braze joints are stronger if the gap between the metals to be joined is very tight, this is why clean fractures can be very well repaired with braze, by wiring the ribs evenly you help keep the gap between the ribs and barrels consistently to a minimum.

Metal expands when heated, if you don't clamp lightly and evenly as you heat the rib it will lift up in hot spots as the rib will lenghthen be unable to slide under the wires and thus lift up. you end up filling the void with soldier and end up with a rib that ripples up and down throughout its length


Gunsmiths are not particularly well rewarded here in the UK if you were to enter into a aprentiship in the uk age 19 the equivalent wage would be forty eight dollars / 8 hr day.

Thats £9000 Per year assuming 2080 hours worked.
Average 1 bed flat might cost £550 per month with bills so £6600 in costs leaving you probably £6.50 or around 9 USD a day with which to meet all other costs.

I regularly see jobs advertised where experienced Machinists in general can easily be expected to work for less than someone at a local supermarket. There is probably something like 2000 practical gunsmiths in the uk though i expect most of those are above retirement age in general and work as a retirement business...

Last edited by Demonwolf444; 07/15/21 02:14 AM.
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Demonwolf444's writing is one of a skilled, experienced and very knowledgeable gun craftsman, and it is very evident when he states:



'........"All soldier and braze joints are stronger if the gap between the metals to be joined is very tight, this is why clean fractures can be very well repaired with braze, by wiring the ribs evenly you help keep the gap between the ribs and barrels consistently to a minimum.

Metal expands when heated, if you don't clamp lightly and evenly as you heat the rib it will lift up in hot spots as the rib will lenghthen be unable to slide under the wires and thus lift up. you end up filling the void with soldier and end up with a rib that ripples up and down throughout its length........"



Few are the number of people who understand what he states in the first of the two sentences above.


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I see

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The video on rib soldering was quite interesting. I was surprised to see him using a couple deep vise-grips to hold things together, as opposed to the specialized shop made barrel clamping fixture shown here a few years ago by Dewey Vicknair. Too bad Dewey stopped posting here, and apparently requested to have all of his excellent posts deleted. I think photos of his fixture may be on his blog or website.

I also found it interesting to see that a Sharpie marker was used to prevent solder from sticking to unwanted areas. I have used soapstone or graphite pencils to do that. But the Sharpie looks much easier and quicker. I can't wait to try it.

Not that I needed confirmation, but it is also nice to see other knowledgeable guys, with actual hands-on experience, noting that corrosive flux may be used for tinning, so long as the residue is neutralized and flushed away. Quite a number of vintage doubles were soldered with corrosive flux. I was repeatedly criticized by one know-it-all here a few years ago for recommending the excellent Oatey No. 5 tinning flux. That product has worked for me in places everything else I tried failed.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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Originally Posted by keith
I was repeatedly criticized by one know-it-all here a few years ago for recommending the excellent Oatey No. 5 tinning flux.


I remember you thanking me for point out the corrosive qualities of that flux, you are still welcome.


http://www.bertramandco.com/

ACGG Professional metalsmith, firearms import services.
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