doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com George L's 4 bore Reilly - amazing price

Thanks for bringing that thread back up Gene. Too bad Destry no longer posts here, it was always enjoyable reading about his Waterfowling experiences, he does post on several fb groups I am in.

Yes it is. That is why a simple photo of the barrel flats would have saved over a dozen pages of nasty back and forth a decade ago.

Shotgun or dangerous game gun? I lean towards shotgun just as Jim Kelly, the gunsmith who worked on the gun, concluded. The 36" barrels seem to tilt towards that conclusion. The Reilly dangerous game guns both rifle and percussion smooth bore seem to have the 26" or shorter barrels. (I will add that normally a Reilly gun with a pistol grip was originally a rifle. There are very few exceptions to this conclusion after looking at 600 Reilly's - and all of he exceptions are 8 bore or larger wild-fowlers).

EDIT: I have just gone over photos of 600 existing Reilly's from 1829 to 1912 and looked at all of the guns 10 bore or larger. In reviewing the photos, there is not a single certain instance of a Reilly shotgun of any bore using a pistol grip or a trigger guard extension which aped a pistol grip. There are about 6 large bore Reilly shotguns with pistol grips...I suspect all of them to have been originally rifles.

Here are the extant Reilly 4 bores and 6 bores in my database (in addition to George L's gun); Invaluable Auctions will simply not let me ask a question - a pity:

SN 18860 - 1874
http://jamesdjulia.com/item/1363-396/
4 bore, U-L hammer gun, wild-fowler shotgun. 42"? barrels. 18 lbs 12 oz (Note the Safety)


SN 15964 - 1869
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...m-quality-condition.cfm?gun_id=101245285
4 bore, Back-Action U-L hammer-gun, express rifle; 26" barrels, 18 lbs 10 oz.


SN 4573 - 1842? (JC - Outlier SN)
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/76/400/engraved-jc-reilly-percussion-sporting-gun
6 bore percussion dangerous game gun (Owned by Terry Buffum)


SN 84xx - 1847
http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?products_id=42593
6 bore, percussion smooth-bore with 26" barrels.


SN 8578 - 1848
https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.c...320++++509+&refno=148046&image=0
6 bore percussion single-barrel wild fowler, 42" barrels


SN 7802 - 1853 - JC "7000" number series
http://промкаталог.рф/PublicDocuments/0523722.pdf
6 bore percussion wild-fowler - 42" barrels


SN 10315 - 1857
https://www.proxibid.com/aspr/REILLY-LONDON/22392022/LotDetail.asp?lid=22392022
Percussion single barrel 6 bore wild fowler - 38" barrel


SN 11937 - 1861
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/14918/lot/52/
4 bore, center break U-L, hammer-gun (converted pin-fire) wild-fowler, 39" barrels; 15 lbs, 2 oz


Dave getting kicked and back-blasted by an 8 bore Reilly Rifle (note pistol grip - 26" barrel). (Note: Eyes closed? Hair flying. Is that pain? )

I went directly to Charlton Hall Auctions rather than the world-wide information site Invaluable. I've posted a question about the water-table and barrel-flats, barrel proofmarks. We'll see what comes of this. I'm as curious in an academic sense as everyone.
https://www.charltonhallauctions.com/auction-lot/-045433C875

I requested more condition photos from CharltonHallAuction and they were very responsive. Photos of barrel flats, barrel proof marks, water table are now on the site. I looks to have 1855-1875 standard London proof marks. The bore is "7" indicating it has been bored out to "4". It could have been a 6 bore rifle bored out to a 4 bore shotgun. If so, it was not reproofed and the chamber was lengthened from 2 1/2" to 4". With the pistol grip stock, that's what I think. Defer to the experts.








As noted from the beginning pitting on the barrel flats and around the face of the bore. Barrels and water table look good. It looks shootable. The engraving and exterior condition of the gun looks good.

Come on fellows.- everyone who talked about the gun on the original line who had opinions:

I judge it to have been a 6 bore rifle rebored to a 4 bore shotgun, chambers lengthened from 2 1/2" to 4" but not reproofed. Everybody has cogitated about lack of proof mark photos. etc. All sorts of opinions have been offered including some contentious ones.

So now it's all revealed and....and...crickets. How about some opinions about whether this is in the ball park. The reboring doesn't matter...lots of rifles were so converted. It's still unique.

Not too many options other than that.I note that the auctioneers description says `no back sight`,does this indicate that there is provision on the barrels for one?? That would confirm the rifle theory.

It it was likely originally a 8 bore brass case gun chambered for at least a 3&1/8" cartridge. None of my books show an example of a 6 bore cartridge gun. It may very well have been a smooth bore ball gun, the 36" tubes would be very long for a rifle. The bolted safeties look original to the gun.

Do we know the actual weight of the rifle? I believe 29 pnds is incorrect.

Steve

I've asked the auction for the weight of 15625.
-- 15964 - the 4 bore rifle with 26" barrels weighs 18 lbs 1 oz
-- 18860 - the 4 bore wildfowler with 42" barrels weighs 18 lbs 12 oz - it has original stalking safeties

Donald Dallas tells me (posted above) that he has never seen a UK cartridge longer that 2 1/2" in the 19th century.

If it were bored out, I'd bet it was done in the USA long ago, probably the reason for no reproof marks. Note the $260.00 hand written on the label.

Bill Flemming "British Sporting Rifle Cardtridges A Summary of case types, Headstamps, Bullets, and Charge Variations" 1993 Armory publications



I have an original 8 bore Eley gastight cartridge in my collection and it measure 3&1/8" with the roll crimp in place.